Gun kits, parts kits, NFA? etc

[Asmodeus6]

Ok, here I am noobing it up again. Problem is I look at more stuff than the average human intakes in a week online, in a day. So I have another series of questions. Some of them will be borderline NFA. And please do not mistake my line of questioning for intention... I see lots of parts kits. ALL OVER. What is with this stuff? I know you can legally build your own gun, and you have to send a form to ATF - correct? Well that typically entails buying a parts kit, and then legally obtaining a serialed receiver by normal means. (buy, ship to FFL, register etc) Like much of the AR stuff I was looking into.

But THEN ...

There is shit I just don't understand. Like, how come people sell full auto FCG's... and parts, and kits, and nowhere does it mention an FFL? Now I own an AK. So I know WAAAAAAAAAAY too much to even THINK about looking at FA AK anything. In this case I presume I am being smart. A single FA part + me owning the host firearm they could reside in = bang me in the ass prison. Correct? Even if you say "NO" I still won't buy a single part so - this is just pure questioning. I enjoy my freedom far too much.

But can a normal person (not an FFL or class III) even own / buy FA parts or gun kits? Or are these wholesale dealer ads I'm seeing? (They sure don't look it) Like say I bought an M16 FCG or parts kit, or whatever. I don't own an AR / M16 - not a part from it, not a magazine, not even a single .223 round. Then what? Does it still get delivered to my door by an ATF agent in a brown UPS outfit? Or do I get put on the "that's the guy to raid soon" list? Is it a crime to own FA parts if you do not possess the host weapon?

Like say I have a mac 10 and I own a M16 FA FCG and bolt. My next question is; how do THEY know whether you do or not? I just don't understand how they can sell this stuff to 'anyone' without it being illegal. Or how they can even sell it at all.

Next up is along the same lines. I see kits to build receivers. Some more innocent than others. Like a mag conversion one for a mac. (ok that makes sense.) OR... you can buy an "unfinished no FFL AR lower" for maybe $80. And a drilling rig that includes instructions and every bit, router, etc to make a fully functioning AR lower receiver. (But you can buy them finished for $100? Why would you want to 'make' your own lower unless...)

Someone who does not want to have a numbered gun, like a serious criminal - could just buy all the AR kits he wants, build the lowers and have a stockpile of FA guns that are completely illegal but each part was/could be purchased legally. (illegal when they are all in the same possession- right?)

How is that? Is this just a big loophole?

Are there people watching? I would honestly hope so.

Sorry if this was a stupid line of questioning. Can you tell I've been on gunbroker too long?

The honest reasoning for this is I was thinking of buying a buddy a mac / sten mag receiver kit. He owns a S/A 9mm and from what I've seen the mags for it are expensive. While the sten's are not. Its fun to shoot, and I get to shoot it. So I thought I would return the favor since he provides the ammo just about always. ( I don't own anything 9mm) and he only has 1 mag for it. (no fun) I do not want to get flagged or my door kicked in over something that would be presumeably innocent to me. I don't even own a mac, mac clone, or a single 9mm or any parts for one.
Just being cautious.

[Mtdew]

You think Way too much..............................

I'm suprised your head dosent hurt.

anyway

parts kits can be built into legal (semiauto) firearms.
or

used as replacement parts for legally owned MG's


And no you dont have to send anything to the ATF if you're building a firearm from a parts kit unless it's a NFA item you are building. no list no watching..
it takes a lot more work to build then buy some do it for the satisifaction, some for a rare firearm (think MG42 or Bren)

and no having a f/a AK bolt carrier in a S/A AK clone is not a problem.


People built parts kits into working firearms every day. you're over thinking it...

[Asmodeus6]

I rarely get headaches, and try not to post questions until I'm really curious and need clarification. I may be overthinking it, but I don't want to be underthinking it... this is my asshole we're talking about here...

So I could have a F/A bolt carrier in an AK without the FCG / or ? without breaking the law? Is it JUST the auto sear? Or what gets you in trouble? I didn't mean to come across with a gun grabber line of questioning, just trying to keep myself out of trouble. So if I really wanted to look at FA parts for a gun I didn't have I could buy them. Look at them, put them back on auction again when I was satisfied poking my nose at them. No harm no foul?

Or- can you own them for a gun you own, they just can't be in the gun?

clarify?

And I can build say a standard pistol or rifle as long as its not an AOW or SBR, FA, or incorporate a suppressor built into it... etc? And you don't have to register a long gun or pistol in PA so... ? It doesn't need to have a serial number of some sort? Where or when does that happen if you make one that is NOT an NFA item. It doesn't?

So I could try to build a gun if I wanted to - and it wouldn't be a big deal as long as it did not include any NFA items. Ok I'll have to admit that is pretty damn cool.

Any other important points I'm missing?

[Mtdew]

I rarely get headaches, and try not to post questions until I'm really curious and need clarification. I may be overthinking it, but I don't want to be underthinking it... this is my asshole we're talking about here...

So I could have a F/A bolt carrier in an AK without the FCG / or ? without breaking the law? YES Is it JUST the auto sear? Not quite Or what gets you in trouble? Drilling the auto sear hole I didn't mean to come across with a gun grabber line of questioning, just trying to keep myself out of trouble. So if I really wanted to look at FA parts for a gun I didn't have I could buy them. Look at them, put them back on auction again when I was satisfied poking my nose at them. No harm no foul? Yes

Or- can you own them for a gun you own, they just can't be in the gun?

clarify?
It depends on the gun the ATF has ruled differently on different firearms.

And I can build say a standard pistol or rifle as long as its not an AOW or SBR, FA, or incorporate a suppressor built into it... etc? And you don't have to register a long gun or pistol in PA so... ? Correct It doesn't need to have a serial number of some sort? No it does not Where or when does that happen if you make one that is NOT an NFA item. It doesn't? Thats correct it dosen't happen, unless you feel like adding one yourself.

So I could try to build a gun if I wanted to - and it wouldn't be a big deal as long as it did not include any NFA items. Ok I'll have to admit that is pretty damn cool. Thats why people build them.

Any other important points I'm missing?

Overall imported Parts count.

Some build it yourself sites (off the top of my head)

www.weaponeer.net (look in the fourms)
www.gunco.net

[Xringshooter]

You need to go to the BATFE website. It will answer these questions and more. There are links to the NFA info, NFA FAQs, newsletters that go to FFL's and general information on possessing FA FCG's, etc. One could spend hours typing answers to all the questions and the minutiae of the laws about full auto parts.

[Asmodeus6]

I'm relatively aware of parts count importance on say an AK. As anything I have changed on mine is of US make just to stay on the right side of that count. I think I am "ahead" one part as it sits. (replaced a commie muzzle nut with a US made muzzle brake) Or maybe that evened it out again... I can't remember if by adding a "evil" part I increased the requirement on myself?
AK-
Tapco G2 trigger assembly
black poly US stamped stock (non folding) and pistol grip
TDI front gaurds
TDI front grip
JTAC muzzle brake (instead of romak barrel nut)
all promags

Am I ok?

Ok, so there is a ridiculous amount of fuzzy law-gic dumped over all this stuff, almost on a part by part - gun for gun basis. Sounds like either; An easy way to get yourself in trouble if you are the type of person that "scans" things and proceeds. Or; intended to be so confusing that it makes the average person so annoyed they just say 'forget this shit'. Which is probably exactly what they want. Less people interested in owning NFA guns / parts of any kind due to hassle.

I'll try to dig in and do some more reading. But it gets fuzzy quick.

[Garpman]

Asmodeus, all AK variant kits come with the full auto parts as they are demilled from true assault rifles. The only exception is the Romanian "G" kits which were semi auto only.

Some sellers may advertise that as a high selling point, but it is not. As soon as I read your op, I am pretty sure that you came across an ad from FTF Industries. They have a piss poor reputation, and are one of the retailers that make it a "point" about the "full auto parts", it's no big deal.

There is the issue of constructive intent, which is clear as mud, and arbitrary, but like Mtdew said, it is the auto sear, and sometimes other parts other than the hammer/trigger/disconnector which I just throw out.

As for parts count by 922(r) specifically for an AK/AKM, it depends on whether your rifle is stamped (6) or milled (5). Of course, a pre ban rifle does not need any of that nonsense.

[truecrimson]

Some more links for your further confusion.

http://www.tapco.com
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/
http://www.prexis.com/sten/
http://www.akparts.com/
http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merch...e=PK+PARTSKITS
http://www.tickbitesupply.com/partskit.html
http://www.sarcoinc.com/fnfal.html
http://www.quarterbore.com/weapons/imbelfal.htm
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/559600
http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe...r=all_products

A couple of forums with a big build culture.
www.akfiles.com
www.falfiles.com

In a number of places "build parties" are becoming quite popular. Everyone brings an AK kit, and a receiver flat, and a few different people bring various tools, jigs, supply a place to work, etc. Then everyone helps everyone else build an AK. It's like the old tupperware parties, but with AKs

[Asmodeus6]

Not preban, definately a romanian G kit which was semi only, milled out for double stack, and bought with the US poly front grip, stock, and pistol grip w/ tapco trigger kit. And stamped receiver.

I'm not really looking into any AK F/A parts.

FTF definately makes their presence known with all the full auto stuff. No fricken doubt about it. Broker is clogged with it. But there was some other site I stumbled on with the whole AR lower receiver - drilling rig and drill bits etc that made me scratch my head.

When I was looking at the mac stuff is when things really got interesting... open bolt semi, full smg parts kits. Receiver centers... side plates... you name it. All types of shit that just made me go? I can just BUY this stuff? What???

And then I thought about getting my buddy the sten weld kit. And then I thought about maybe building a semi mini mac. But I can't find anything but the parts kit, nothing for the receiver. So... for me. They just looked easy since its all welding. I mean I could just go buy one. But I thought maybe I would BUILD one since as mentioned above. I can. But I can't find the receiver center or side plates? Only for the M11 and only side plates for the M10. Nothing for the mini.

Bah...

[Asmodeus6]

In a number of places "build parties" are becoming quite popular. Everyone brings an AK kit, and a receiver flat, and a few different people bring various tools, jigs, supply a place to work, etc. Then everyone helps everyone else build an AK. It's like the old tupperware parties, but with AKs

UH!? Now that's a party I would have. Much better than the drunk people spilling shit on my carpet, and knocking my stuff over.

Now I just need better friends that have all that stuff.
lol!