PA Gun Collectors Ass'n Gun Show (1/17 & 1/18) (Northway Mall)

[HSMaxim]

Sometimes you can effect a deal on unwarranted overpriced merchandise. At a recent show, I saw a Steyr M95 "Stutzenkarabiner" (or "Karabinerstutzen" depending on what reference or forum you read) on a vendor's rack, with the tag marked "8x50R," but the barrel is stamped "S" over the chamber, indicating it was converted to 8x56R. This piece has been in the vendor's rack for probably two+ years at $495, a reasonable price for an unconverted 8x50R, but at least $250 to $300 more than an M95 in 8x56R should be priced.

I couldn't resist this past time; I politely called his attention to the "S" and he said, "I missed that; you're absolutely right." I asked what he'd take for it, since with the 8x56R chambering it is not worth $495. He thought for a long time, told me what he had in it ($350, I didn't believe it), and I threw out $250, saying it was the going rate of two other M95s at that particular show. He thought some more and we shook on it. That told me that he paid less than $350, but given that the bore is mint, and sling swivels / loops are on the left side and bottom of the stock, the numbers match, there's no EP S/N on the bolt body, and -- wait for it -- no import mark (pre '68), I gladly handed over the $250.

This is the exception, not the rule, and it falls under the blind hog & acorn principle.

Noah

You sir are a better negotiator than I.
I have over numerous occasions tried to point out errors in a nice friendly way only to be given the stink eye and have actually had the dealer walk away more than once.
And yes, that same rifle was at many more shows to come.

As to your M95, non of mine are import marked but every one of my carbines have forced stocks.
I'm assuming yours is an original carbine and not a cut down rifle?
Only two of my long rifles have numbers matching stocks.

Anyhow, great find and congrats on showing the dealer the error!

[HSMaxim]

Ok let me put this out there. Im a younger guy, 28 to be exact. I was one of maybe 3 people who had a table set up that are 35 and younger. I'm very nice and love to talk with people, you dont have to buy anything to have a nice conversation or be information with anyone.

I trully dont know why this show is not popular. I dont like the facility, but its big, you have room to move you dont bump into people, and if you have a significant other that doesnt like guns the best mall in Pitt is across the street. It literally take 10 minutes max to get here form 279. In my opinion the "location" is the best of all the shows, but the venue kinda stinks. Now I dont know what the hell is up with the president and that situation, but it shouldnt be reflected onto all of the people. Im just a guy who is a collector that needs to get rid of some guns to be able to put new shingles on my new house. So I need to get some money out of going to these shows. after the table fee, food for the weekend, and my time it pricey and I only had one table and live 15 mins away.
When I went to the last show there it took me 45 mins to get from 279.
You are getting there in the early morning to set up, I was coming in at 10am when it seemed like everyone in the city was going to the greatest mall across the street.


People want gun shows to stay around or happen more often, yet no one shows up to them or only 10% of the crowd actually buys things. Plus, people like to steal "monroeville show last weekend" The people who set up are taking a risk with this time, money, and property to even do these.
I bought over 40 firearms last year, most were online from forums and a couple were from gunbroker or online vendors.

Most people go to gun shows now to handle the guns, get the knowledge, then go buy it online after the show now a days. Or if you have cheaply made guns at a low price, you'll do good. I had one guy look for a nice little hunting 20ga for his 15 yr old son that was going to last him. Great story and all, he picked up everyone of my cousins shotguns and everyone of mine. He basically threw mine on the table and it landed at a weird angle on the tie and scratched a brand new gun. Said he was sorry, but then walked away. Now I have a new gun with a nice scrape on it that I will now have to discount.
Selling online would assure this won't happen.


I had pretty reasonable prices on my guns. Most people even told me I did. It was either the wrong caliber, wrong length, ect. Heck I even told people to go online and find a cheaper one, but to consider shipping, insurance and FFL fee. Mine were all either cheaper or maybe a few bucks more. Its called negotiating though. I was willing to let some stuff go at some pretty low prices if people would actually negotiate.
C&R means no fees, something many "sellers" at shows seem to forget, and on many collector forums there is no additional shipping fees.


The point I am trying to make is that in 5 or so years there will be no more gun shows if this continues. In order for it to continue you need young guys like me to keep it up, yet I sold 1 gun in two shows, got a scratched gun now as well. It truly isnt worth my time and im not there to talk and have a social weekend like most of the collector vendors. If a gun is say $600 online, free shipping w/e, and its $700 on a persons table thats not a business. why not get it at the show? Online you dont know what your getting, you still have to pay an FFL fee and there probably is a little wiggle room in their price. It was the lack of offers even that gets me and in the rare time you get one, its below what you bought the gun for.
Why in the world would I pay a $100 premium to a gunshow dealer? I'm all for supporting the local guy, but c'mon, a hundred dollars is not exactly the change under your car seat, it's four fill ups at the pump. Expecting someone to pay a $100 premium is why you sold 1 gun in the past two shows, sorry, but that's how I see it based on your post

So sad to say, I dont think Ill set up at the next show and I talked to the other younger guy and he said he probably wont either. Ill just have to post on here and GB which is sad. I will make a thread of the guns for sale in the for sale section.

If you can't sell at the shows, why do you think you will sell online?

I'm being serious here.
If your prices weren't attractive enough to sell at a show why will they sell online?

I know why, a hugely expanded audience.

Yes, it is sad that you are now discouraged, but you also don't care about the reasons people don't go to the shows (the political aspect of the PGCA President) so I bet your prediction is correct, in a few years the gun show will be a thing of the past.
And yes that is a shame, particularly for people like me that use gun shows to find parts for antique and mil-surp firearms, but again, I can find these parts online.

Sorry you didn't do better in your sales, maybe you need to think about why people refuse to go to the PCGA shows and make it know to others and then maybe something will change.
There are more than just me complaining on this thread about location and the politics involved.

[Noah_Zark]

You sir are a better negotiator than I.
I have over numerous occasions tried to point out errors in a nice friendly way only to be given the stink eye and have actually had the dealer walk away more than once.
And yes, that same rifle was at many more shows to come.

As to your M95, non of mine are import marked but every one of my carbines have forced stocks.
I'm assuming yours is an original carbine and not a cut down rifle?
Only two of my long rifles have numbers matching stocks.

Anyhow, great find and congrats on showing the dealer the error!

Photos of the subject M95 Carbine / Stutzen as promised earlier:















Noah

[uaheclipse24]

If you can't sell at the shows, why do you think you will sell online?

I'm being serious here.
If your prices weren't attractive enough to sell at a show why will they sell online?

I know why, a hugely expanded audience.

Yes, it is sad that you are now discouraged, but you also don't care about the reasons people don't go to the shows (the political aspect of the PGCA President) so I bet your prediction is correct, in a few years the gun show will be a thing of the past.
And yes that is a shame, particularly for people like me that use gun shows to find parts for antique and mil-surp firearms, but again, I can find these parts online.

Sorry you didn't do better in your sales, maybe you need to think about why people refuse to go to the PCGA shows and make it know to others and then maybe something will change.
There are more than just me complaining on this thread about location and the politics involved.

By no means did I take anything you said offensively and I truly do respect your opinion. In the case of the "100 difference" I meant if a buy it not price on GB is $600 or that what the last one sold for and its the cheapest one on there or has been for awhile, and I have one on my table for $700. You will have to factor in shipping ($25-$40) from my experiences, an FFL fee ($20-$40) extra insurance on the shipping if you want (say $10) add all that up and its not $600 anymore and you still dont know what you are getting. If you would just negotiate with the person you could probably get it for the same price and maybe even a little cheaper. its cash and carry (at least for me) no background checks, no tax, ect.

As I stated im not a dealer, this isnt my livelihood. Just needed some cash for the new house. Im willing to work with people, but I am certainly not going to give the gun away.

on the topic of location and politics. I guess it is all about where you are and how you drive. I drive in the city daily and traffic doesnt bother me. I'm sorry but I just dont understand how it would ever take 45mins from 279 on McKnight to go 5 miles.

Also, I really dont care much about politics. Hate to say it, but not too many young people do now a days. And I dont get why people dont go simply because of them when the people who set up there have nothing to do with it. I actually dislike the washington show as the facility is horrible, dim lighting, cold in the winter, hot in the summer, narrow isles, too much junk at it, and every time at least one gun gets stolen, horrible security. Monroeville, has too much Chinese made things, shirts, jewelry, old war aperal, and at least 4 tables asking me to donate something. To me I dont care about the politics and I go for a experience.

[HSMaxim]

By no means did I take anything you said offensively and I truly do respect your opinion. In the case of the "100 difference" I meant if a buy it not price on GB is $600 or that what the last one sold for and its the cheapest one on there or has been for awhile, and I have one on my table for $700. You will have to factor in shipping ($25-$40) from my experiences, an FFL fee ($20-$40) extra insurance on the shipping if you want (say $10) add all that up and its not $600 anymore and you still dont know what you are getting. If you would just negotiate with the person you could probably get it for the same price and maybe even a little cheaper. its cash and carry (at least for me) no background checks, no tax, ect.

As I stated im not a dealer, this isnt my livelihood. Just needed some cash for the new house. Im willing to work with people, but I am certainly not going to give the gun away.

on the topic of location and politics. I guess it is all about where you are and how you drive. I drive in the city daily and traffic doesnt bother me. I'm sorry but I just dont understand how it would ever take 45mins from 279 on McKnight to go 5 miles.

Also, I really dont care much about politics. Hate to say it, but not too many young people do now a days. And I dont get why people dont go simply because of them when the people who set up there have nothing to do with it. I actually dislike the washington show as the facility is horrible, dim lighting, cold in the winter, hot in the summer, narrow isles, too much junk at it, and every time at least one gun gets stolen, horrible security. Monroeville, has too much Chinese made things, shirts, jewelry, old war aperal, and at least 4 tables asking me to donate something. To me I dont care about the politics and I go for a experience.

Beats me about the 45 mins, maybe there was an accident that I didn't see, but it sure was bumper to bumper and the light would change twice before we even got to it.
Horrible experience.


I don't understand why young people don't care about what controls them.
Yes, politicians can control you if you allow them to.
Your vote matters.

But anyway, that's not the politics I was talking about, I meant the politics of the PGCA.
If you are a member, you should be concerned because the President and his gun buy back scheme is costing the PGCA members and dealers are losing revenue at the shows.

I'm far from the only person who feels this way about the scam the president is running.

I think that's about all I need to say on the matter.

I also don't like the Monroeville show for pretty much the reasons you stated, in particular if i want to buy gutter guards or Indian blankets I sure shouldn't have to pay an entrance fee to do so at a gunshow.

I wish you good luck on your future dealings, enjoy gunshows while you can.

[HSMaxim]

Photos of the subject M95 Carbine / Stutzen as promised earlier:















Noah

Nice, you did well for sure on that one!

[Hawk]

Thanks for the pics. Never seen one of those before. Also never seen a milsurp with a sling swivel on the side of the grip (a pain for a lefty). What was the purpose for locating it there instead of on the side of the stock of typical milsurps? (I know it's for slinging while skiing).

[Noah_Zark]

Thanks for the pics. Never seen one of those before. Also never seen a milsurp with a sling swivel on the side of the grip (a pain for a lefty). What was the purpose for locating it there instead of on the side of the stock of typical milsurps? (I know it's for slinging while skiing).

It was intended for cavalry.

Some Czech Mausers had rear side sling swivels in the side of the wrist like that of the M95 Steyr Mannlicher above.

Noah

[Stooperzero]

nice, I picked up a M95 a few weeks ago.


they couldn't give these away with their ammo a few years ago , NOW everything for them costs $$$$.