Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Covington, Pennsylvania
    (Tioga County)
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    Default Permit to Carry Requirements for Recently Moved

    My family and I recently moved to beautiful PA from bitterly cold MN. I had my permit to carry in MN which required a permit to carry a handgun course from a certified instructor, range test, and $100 fee (plus instructor fee). The permit itself from my former county's sheriff's office cost another $100. Expensive, tedious, but helpful and worth it.

    I did as much research as I could online for Tioga County. It appeared that I would be able to go and apply for my permit here as I currently meet every requirement I could find. Went to the sheriff's office today and was denied my application because Tioga County requires new moves from out of state to reside in the county for 1 year by their PA Driver's License before they will process the application. This was news to me. I still cannot find this information anywhere online.

    Just curious if anyone on here knows when, how, and why this restriction was added to the process. Pennsylvania is a "shall issue" state yet it appears that an unnecessary restriction has been put in place. Would like to know more about this. Seems like the required background check (which I absolutely agree with) negates the need for this restriction.

    Certainly bummed and mildly frustrated. Just wanting to better understand. Thank you in advance for any help!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bucks, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Permit to Carry Requirements for Recently Moved

    There is no basis in the law for such a waiting period. Similar restrictions have in fact been shot down when some states tried to impose waiting periods for Welfare benefit eligibility; it's a violation of the Constitution to discriminate like this against some residents.

    Read this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapiro_v._Thompson
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Free seminar 7/18/19 in Quakertown: https://www.senatormensch.com/concealed-carry-seminar/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Covington, Pennsylvania
    (Tioga County)
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    Default Re: Permit to Carry Requirements for Recently Moved

    Thank you very much for the reply. This is good information. Now, I just need to figure out what to do with it. Any suggestions?

    I'm thinking about visiting the sheriff's office again to ask some polite questions regarding the history of the restriction and how I would go about contesting it. Again, thank you for the reply.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    New Castle County, Delaware
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    Default Re: Permit to Carry Requirements for Recently Moved

    Quote Originally Posted by Psalm82 View Post
    Thank you very much for the reply. This is good information. Now, I just need to figure out what to do with it. Any suggestions?

    I'm thinking about visiting the sheriff's office again to ask some polite questions regarding the history of the restriction and how I would go about contesting it. Again, thank you for the reply.
    Maybe you could ASK a lawyer to ask those questions for you. Don't know how much it would cost you, but you could ASK.
    IANAL. I don't give legal advice. I'm only stating my OPINION.
    (Did I really need to say that on an Internet forum? LOL)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Permit to Carry Requirements for Recently Moved

    Read this thread: http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...my-ccw-pa.html

    Pay attention to the posts by Ironsight, he had a good course of action that is suspect of effecting change in Allegheny county.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Covington, Pennsylvania
    (Tioga County)
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    Default Re: Permit to Carry Requirements for Recently Moved

    Wow, this seems to be a bigger issue than I originally thought.

    streaker69, thank you for the link to this other thread. Amazing how similar the circumstances are. I'm going to follow Ironsight's lead and also submit a request for additional information.

    Due to my job, I can't go back to the court house until Monday. I'm planning on going back to ask some clarifying questions about this. I'll post what I learn after that communication.

    Thank you, everyone. Good to know that I'm not the only one scratching my head over this.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    DeepInTheWoods, Pennsylvania
    (Warren County)
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    Default Re: Permit to Carry Requirements for Recently Moved

    Welcome to PA and PAFAO!
    Did you leave the Liberal Minnesota nanny-state baggage at the border?

    County sheriff is an elected position.
    And in PA, he is NOT the chief law enforcement officer!

    PA sheriffs have very limited enforcement activities.
    There are several threads on that subject here.

    So, if you decide to get active, you are not likely to suffer official or unofficial repercussions.
    American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Covington, Pennsylvania
    (Tioga County)
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    Default Re: Permit to Carry Requirements for Recently Moved

    I was able to return to the Sheriff's office this morning with my clarifying questions. The same woman was at the front desk. When I introduced myself and said that I had some follow up questions about the 1-year restriction, the second office woman from across the room jumped all over my words. She loudly and aggressively treated me like an idiot and said that the state of PA has it's laws and rules and then each county and sheriff has their own additional rules. I was legitimately surprised by her verbal attack. She then told me that I would not be able to find anything else about this online.

    When I finally had an opportunity to speak again (I stood their smiling during her tirade), I was able to ask when this restriction was put into place. She replied that it was decided by the sheriff in 2012. When I went to write that down. She went and got the sheriff himself. Good! I was happy to talk with him!

    The sheriff treated me with complete respect and kindness. He explained that in 2012 they made this restriction due to the oil and gas workers coming into the area, getting their permit, and then moving out of state. His name is on the permit and so he doesn't feel comfortable with that. I explained my requirements in MN, how I am not a temporary resident, and that my background check will be clean. I am as lawful as they come yet this is restricting me. He admitted that he isn't completely happy with the restriction, but he feels it is best. He said he is a supporter of the 2nd amendment...

    He was cordial, and said that maybe it will be something they review in January. We shall see... He also told me that I can legally open carry in PA but he doesn't recommend it. Uh, no. Not going to happen.

    Several questions:
    1. In MN, it is a misdemeanor to move from the area and not turn in your permit. I had 30 days to turn in my permit (which I obviously did!) Is this true in PA? If so the answer is to pursue those individuals, not limit lawful individuals.
    2. Are all these oil and gas workers completely changing their residency? Are they getting PA driver's license? How can they apply for resident permit then like I am trying to do?
    3. Does the sheriff (any county in PA and any sheriff in PA) have the lawful authority to place additional restrictions in their county? I find this highly unlikely.

    Not sure how to proceed next. Going to think it over. I'm leaning towards contacting my local state representative. I'm old school in that I find no value in being needlessly antagonistic, but this is still unsettled. Thank you to you all for helping me think carefully about this.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Permit to Carry Requirements for Recently Moved

    The sheriff has no right to set any such restriction, he's breaking the law, plain and simple. Now what can you do about it, you could sue him for official oppression for his "policy" that violates the state law.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
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    21474845

    Default Re: Permit to Carry Requirements for Recently Moved

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    The sheriff has no right to set any such restriction, he's breaking the law, plain and simple. Now what can you do about it, you could sue him for official oppression for his "policy" that violates the state law.
    If he decides to go this route, I'll kick in $20 to support it.

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