PGC still doesn't get it.

[Steve in PA]

I see they still refuse to accept or acknowledge the exception allowed under PACS 6106 for persons going hunting, fishing or trapping and possessing a Sportman's permit.

From the 2008-2009 Huntng & Trapping Digest;

Firearms - Handguns: A Sportsman’s Firearms permit or a License to Carry Firearms is required to carry a handgun, or have in a motor vehicle. Licenses to Carry Firearms permits are issued by county sheriffs or the Philadelphia Chief of Police. The License to Carry Firearms permit only entitles bowhunters or spotlighters, for instance, to carry firearms that fall within this classification. County treasurers issue Sportsman’s Firearms Permits. A person holding a Sportsman’s Firearms Permit may not carry a concealed handgun or a loaded handgun in a vehicle, and may not carry a handgun while bowhunting or spotlighting.

The sentence in bold is just the way they have it in the digest. I agree with the second part of the sentence, however the first part is in direct conflict with the UFA.

6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
(9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.

(c) Sportsman's firearm permit.--
(1) Before any exception shall be granted under paragraph (b)(9) or (10) of this section to any person 18 years of age or older licensed to hunt, trap or fish or who has been issued a permit relating to hunting dogs, such person shall, at the time of securing his hunting, furtaking or fishing license or any time after such license has been issued, secure a sportsman's firearm permit from the county treasurer..............................

[fingers80002]

From what I have read, a Sportsman's permit does NOT allow loaded carry in a vehicle.
Only in the field.
IANAL, that is what I have gained from reading.

[Ret-Fed]

...
A person holding a Sportsman’s Firearms Permit may not carry a concealed handgun or a loaded handgun in a vehicle, and may not carry a handgun while bowhunting or spotlighting.

The sentence in bold is just the way they have it in the digest. I agree with the second part of the sentence, however the first part is in direct conflict with the UFA.
...

Steve,

When you say you agree with the second part of the sentence, exactly which words are you including in "the second part":

1. ... , and may not carry a handgun while bowhunting or spotlighting.

OR

2. ... or a loaded handgun in a vehicle, and may not carry a handgun while bowhunting or spotlighting.

[Steve in PA]

From what I have read, a Sportsman's permit does NOT allow loaded carry in a vehicle.
Only in the field.
IANAL, that is what I have gained from reading.

Re-read my post. PACS 6106(b)(9) along with (c) clearly states that a Sportman's Permit allows the person to carry a loaded firearm concealed on or about his person or in a vehicle while hunting, fishing, etc.....or going to or coming from places for those activities.

I don't know how it can be explained any clearer. But apparently the PGC doesn't get it either.

"(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
(9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places."

[Steve in PA]

Steve,

When you say you agree with the second part of the sentence, exactly which words are you including in "the second part":

1. ... , and may not carry a handgun while bowhunting or spotlighting.

OR

2. ... or a loaded handgun in a vehicle, and may not carry a handgun while bowhunting or spotlighting.

The second part about the SP not being able to used for carrying while bowhunting or spotlighting.

[Ret-Fed]

Steve in PA,
It seems that someone slipped the word "concealed" into the PGC Digest this year. I'm not sure why that happened. As you know, the PGC Digest is only a summary of hunting & trapping laws, regulations, etc. and does not carry the weight of a statute.

2008-2009 PGC Digest: A person holding a Sportsman’s Firearms Permit may not carry a concealed handgun or a loaded handgun in a vehicle, and may not carry a handgun while bowhunting or spotlighting.


I agree that under the Title 18 Chapter 61, a Sportsman's Permit allows you to carry a firearm (as described at 6102) concealed and loaded (since no mention is made that it must be unloaded) in a vehicle.

However, Under Title 34, Section 2503, more restrictive language exists that prohibits a loaded "firearm" with certain exceptions, e.g. PA License to Carry, LEOs, PGC Officers, etc. There is no mention of an exception with only a Sportsman's Permit. Why is there a problem with Title 34 having more restrictive language than Title 18.

Also, as another example of more restrictive language, Title 18 makes no mention that carrying a firearm while spotlighting wildlife and while possessing only a Sportsman's Permit is unlawful; however, Title 34 contains more restrictive language requiring a PA License to Carry Firearms to carry a 6102 firearm while spotlighting wildlife.

[Steve in PA]

One of the problems is that the PGC does NOT set the gun laws for the state.

The SP allows persons who for whatever reason do not want to get a LTC, but desire to carry a handgun while hunting, fishing or trapping. The UFA clearly states that a person doing those activities (hunting, fishing or trapping) can carry concealed on or about his person or have a (loaded) firearm in his vehicle while actually hunting, fishing or trapping. It also states the person can have the weapon concealed or in his vehicle while going to or coming from those places.

The exceptions under 6106 (b) clearly state when the firearm must be unloaded, such as going to the range, gunsmith, etc. Going to or coming from your hunting, fishing or trapping place with the SP is NOT one of them that requires the firearm to be unloaded.

I'm sure the spotlighting restriction for the SP is based on there not being an argument for needing a firearm while doing that activity with only the SP. If you are going huning, fishing or trapping you need a way (exception) to get your firearm there. Thus we have the SP exception to PACS 6106.

Which if you think about is really stupid, since all the person needs to do is get his LTC and he can spotlight while carrying. I think it has to do with the LTC having more hoops (background, etc) than does the SP which is why the PGC couldn't argue against the LTC. The LTC is primarily used for self-defense which would have reguired them to argue against the self-defense issue. Wasn't likely to happen.

The spotlight issue is coming to light after the SP exception to 6106. Could there be an amendment to 6106 (b) to allow spotlighting? Sure, but not likely to happen based upon the issue I mentioned above. The SP is not primarily used for self-defense which is why the person can't drive down to the Piggly-Wiggly to get a quart of milk while carrying concealed under the SP.

And once again, as for the "more restricive language" the PGC 2503 makes no mention of a police officer being allowed to carry in a vehicle when off-duty. You can't agrue, well......it's okay to have more restrictive language when it comes to spotlighting and thus be cited for it but don't worry about the other sections.

[Booner]

Steve, your ongoing bitching about the PGC seems to stem from their failure to provide language allowing off-duty carry by police officers without a carry permit. Explain to me why there should be such an exemption? Are police officers better than the rest of us? Has any police officer EVER been cited by the PGC for carrying? Or do you have some other axe to grind? Your incessant whining on multiple forums is tiresome, not to mention a waste of bandwidth.

[Ret-Fed]

One of the problems is that the PGC does NOT set the gun laws for the state. ...

Actually the PA Game Commission, via the Game & Wildlife Code (Title 34) and PA Regulations (Title 58), DOES establish many laws and regulations that apply to firearms (rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, etc.). Most of these "gun laws" apply to hunting & trapping situations; however, there are also laws that set requirements for the safe handling of firearms (e.g. loaded firearms, in, on, or against vehicles, etc.).

To think that only Title 18 Chapter 61 gun laws are valid in PA is a gross misconception.

[338winmag]

I'm not real shore what your bitching about as far as i know you have never been allowed to have a loaded weapon of any kind in your vehicle while hunting it may only be loaded after you exit the vehicle and are away from the road