PA State Police sales data

[LBaker]

I have a meeting with a legislator and house legal staff on 12/4 to work on legislation to get rid of the database. If anyone can provide information as to issues they have had during police encounters it would be greatly appreciated. Guns confiscated and not returned, guns run thru the database during traffic stops or any other issues.

I know there have been cases talked about here but I just don't have the time to search them out. Please help if you can...

[streaker69]

Here's a post I did a while ago that dug up quite a few stories of members and others having their serial numbers run and firearms seized.

http://forum.pafoa.org/1862698-post-103.html

I think Twency (not sure) started a thread cataloging incidents as well.

[LBaker]

Here's a post I did a while ago that dug up quite a few stories of members and others having their serial numbers run and firearms seized.

http://forum.pafoa.org/1862698-post-103.html

I think Twency (not sure) started a thread cataloging incidents as well.

Thanks!

Any first hand knowledge and the willingness to type up a very short summary with your contact info would be great too. It helps to be able to walk into a legislators office and say "so and so" was directly impacted by this unlawful use of records.

[streaker69]

Here's a recent one: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...-detained.html

Just posted today.

[Cyclops]

I have a meeting with a legislator and house legal staff on 12/4 to work on legislation to get rid of the database. If anyone can provide information as to issues they have had during police encounters it would be greatly appreciated. Guns confiscated and not returned, guns run thru the database during traffic stops or any other issues.

I know there have been cases talked about here but I just don't have the time to search them out. Please help if you can...

I did legislative advocacy for 15 years on the national level (copyright issues for individual creators). I learned that examples of abuse of process or law are usually not enough to affect change because when the abuse level is compared to the potential for abuse (total LTCF holders) the abuses are minimal. Of course that does not make the abuse OK. It just makes the complaints seem minor in level and therefore not a priority.

I also learned that the best advocacy is based upon the improper application of the law. Here is what I mean when it comes to the PSP database.

PA law clearly forbids the creation of a gun owner registry. PSPS argues that its database is not a registry of gun owner but of gun sales. In fact it is what PSP call it. However, it is also a de facto registry of gun owners because the current and past owners can be traced through the database. If it looks like a duck and swims like a duck, it is a duck.

My example is this. Tom owns a handgun. He sells it to Dick who some time later sells it to Harry. So the PSP has a registry that records that Tom and Dick have been owners of the gun and Harry is the current owner. How can that not be a registry of gun owners? Give the legislator that example and ask that question. The press for an answer. If he/she says the PSP database does not constitute a gun owner registry ask for an explanation of that position, and write it down. (They hate when you write down their stated positions).

The way to have the most influence on a legislator is to 1) contribute money and 2) put them on the spot and make them commit. I assume the legislator is gun friendly. Still,, when you offer an argument that is based upon abuse of the intent of the law it is often more powerful than citing some actual abuses. Still anecdotal cases are good to offer too.

Good luck with your effort.

[streaker69]

Aren't the Records of Sale required to be deleted/trashed within a certain time frame after the sale is completed? Why is the PSP allowed to break that particular aspect of the law? That would be a good method to attack considering the success of HB80.

[Cyclops]

Aren't the Records of Sale required to be deleted/trashed within a certain time frame after the sale is completed? Why is the PSP allowed to break that particular aspect of the law? That would be a good method to attack considering the success of HB80.

I do not know the answer to your question, you make an interesting point. If the PSP is not deleting the records, and, if that deletion is required by law, then the PSP is violating the law. I agree: that would be a good thing to ask the legislator.

[streaker69]

I do not know the answer to your question, you make an interesting point. If the PSP is not deleting the records, and, if that deletion is required by law, then the PSP is violating the law. I agree: that would be a good thing to ask the legislator.

I fear we'd get the same answer we got when questioning legislators about the PennDOT No Gun signs. "We work closely with them and we don't want to upset them."

[LBaker]

This legislator is on board and had actually sponsored a similar bill last session. I'm going to be tasked with getting co-sponsors for the legislation and try to get some momentum. Anecdotal cases will help to prove that there actually is a problem.

[gnbrotz]

I have a meeting with a legislator and house legal staff on 12/4 to work on legislation to get rid of the database. If anyone can provide information as to issues they have had during police encounters it would be greatly appreciated. Guns confiscated and not returned, guns run thru the database during traffic stops or any other issues.

I know there have been cases talked about here but I just don't have the time to search them out. Please help if you can...

Since keeping the records beyond 72 hours is already a violation of existing law, what's the point of another law?