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February 19th, 2011, 04:33 PM #1Member
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Grove City,
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Concealed Carry in School Zone/Property
According to Ohioans for Concealed Carry website http://www.ohioccw.org/frequently-as...tml#prohibited, concealed carry in school zone is prohibited "unless you are immediately in the process of picking up or dropping off a child and you do not exit the vehicle."
Can anyone advise me if this exclusion applies in PA?
Thank you.
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February 19th, 2011, 04:37 PM #2
Re: Concealed Carry in School Zone/Property
Uhh... Gun Free School zones are a Federal Thing. Being within a School Zone with a loaded firearm requires a State's LTCF. So, to carry a loaded gun, Open or Concealed in a School Zone in PA you need a PA LTCF. There is no law prohibiting being in a School Zone in PA with a LTCF, in or out of a vehicle.
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February 19th, 2011, 04:41 PM #3
Re: Concealed Carry in School Zone/Property
We do not have that exclusion. School buildings and grounds are off-limits, unless you can prove "other lawful purpose" in court. We don't have a state school "zone", just the buildings, grounds, and conveyances taking kids to/from school. ....yes, even if you are in your driveway, in your own car, with the mission to take your kids to school or are on your way home from - you would be in violation.
18 Pa.C.S. § 912: Possession of weapon on school property
(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nunchuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515
Don't end up in my signature!
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February 19th, 2011, 04:41 PM #4
Re: Concealed Carry in School Zone/Property
Also. School Zones and School Property are not the same thing.
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February 19th, 2011, 06:36 PM #5
Re: Concealed Carry in School Zone/Property
I believe that this is what Savcon2 is referring to:
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...-property.html
Have drinks and energy bars at hand ... 300+ posts ... but it is well worth the readKeep perspective, recognize the good in your enemies and the bad in your friends.
"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein, Revolt in 2100
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February 19th, 2011, 07:10 PM #6
Re: Concealed Carry in School Zone/Property
You ready for a can of worms? lol
I am not sure what a school "zone" is, but it is illegal to have a firearm on school property unless authorized by the school. It is also illegal to have a gun in your vehicle if you are transporting your child to or from school, since your vehicle is now technically a conveyance. The law is asinine.
Basically, all of us here believe that an LTCF satisfies the "other lawful" requirement in the law, however it does not seem that anyone has tested that yet.
Read savcon's post."Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." - JOHN ADAMS, 2nd President of the United States of America
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February 26th, 2011, 11:54 PM #7
Re: Concealed Carry in School Zone/Property
I live across the street from a school (Literally. Directly across from my front door is the school, though I'm pretty sure it's a storage room directly across from the door) and have open carried on my property many times with the "SCHOOL POLICE" all over outside at the start/end of classes.
Nobody's ever made a direct comment about the fact that I was armed, though immediately after we closed on the house we had a small procession led by the principal and one of the school police officers to welcome us to the neighborhood. It was actually a little creepy how friendly they were.
Obviously I have my LTCF (I'm actually three years in on my first, I just had to go check because I couldn't remember how long it's been that I've been carrying.) so I hadn't been in violation of GFSZ but nobody ever even asked, even when I was off my property (Walking, carrying trash to the curb, etc.)
I don't have a real point here, sorry.
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February 27th, 2011, 12:16 AM #8
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February 27th, 2011, 12:36 AM #9
Re: Concealed Carry in School Zone/Property
I would suggest that this assertion be made with a careful caveat...
The above BOLDED assertion, to my knowledge, has never been established by court ruling on the existing law. We here have surmised that the court 'could possibly' interpret the law that way, but to my knowledge, no court in PA has done so... nor has there been evidence presented that this was the legislative intent of that description of 'conveyance'.....
Does anyone know of such a case where the court actually interpreted the existing law to say that it applies to personally owned vehicles transporting one's own child??
...
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February 27th, 2011, 01:23 AM #10
Re: Concealed Carry in School Zone/Property
The smart money stays on this side of the "iffy" line, and when it comes to gun laws, there are plenty of judges who are closet anti-gun activists. It shows in their written opinions.
I've seen sitting judges who opined that the "other lawful purpose" clause doesn't mean "any purpose which is not unlawful", but instead should be interpreted to mean "other purpose related to an official job, like police or school security officer". The statute says nothing like that at all, and the rule of lenity requires that all ambiguities in criminal statutory language be resolved in favor of the defendant; but they want to effectively eliminate the only exception provided by the Legislature to a 1st degree misdemeanor charge.
So I would fully expect those same sorts of activist judges to look at language concerning vehicles used to transport school children, and include personal vehicles being used to take your kids and the neighbor's kids to school.
As a consequence of that pessimistic assessment, my advice would be to avoid bringing your firearm to the attention of any police or school administrators. Don't tell your kids, or the car pool kids, that you have a gun, because they could tell their teachers, who are almost always anti-gun lefties.
There's a risk to having a gun in the car, even with a Pennsylvania LTCF. Of course, there's a different sort of risk to NOT having a gun in the car.
You take a risk just getting out of bed. Or staying in bed. Just make your choices with as much info as you can get.Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.
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