Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by jaseman View Post
    Hate to necro a thread, but I figure this one's got good info...

    Can someone please clarify a few points for me....

    1. If I buy a stripped or 'virgin' lower, my understanding now is that I can build it anyway I want (other than an SBR) without any paperwork?
    2. If I buy from an FFL, obviously it will be in their books regardless (or does a stripped lower not go in the books as it's not complete)
    3. If I were to buy a 'virgin' lower from a private party, does it still need to go through an FFL as it is neither a pistol nor rifle at that point, but an "other"

    I'm slowly saving to build a pistol, and want to make sure I stay 100% within all the legal mumbo-jumbo.

    1. Correct, you can build it as you please without paperwork, except for an SBR.
    2. The receiver is the "firearm", it will be on the FFL's boundbook. If it is transferred to you as a bare/virgin receiver it will be marked on the 4473 form as "other firearm", which you need to be 21 to receive(just like handguns, pistol grip only shotguns, NFA, etc).
    3. No, it does NOT need to go through a FFL. PA's definition of a "firearm" requires certain measurements, of which a barrel length. If it doesn't have a barrel, and was never made into a PA defined "firearm" on it's original build status - it can be bought/sold like a long gun.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

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  2. #32
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    wilkes barre, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    this question sort of came up about ar pistols. i understand from this thread if you have a virgin reciever you dont need to register it as a pistol with the PSP, correct?

    considering the current political climate, and the wolfes supposed push for banning ar15s and other 'weapons of war', does the same hold true for 80% lowers you manufacture yourself, as in, since they arent registered at all, do we still need to legally let the PSP know about them?

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by svital123 View Post
    this question sort of came up about ar pistols. i understand from this thread if you have a virgin reciever you dont need to register it as a pistol with the PSP, correct?

    considering the current political climate, and the wolfes supposed push for banning ar15s and other 'weapons of war', does the same hold true for 80% lowers you manufacture yourself, as in, since they arent registered at all, do we still need to legally let the PSP know about them?
    1. PA does NOT have a registry - it is prohibited by state law.

    1a. PA has a Record of Sale database containing every handgun sale, or longarm sale by a dealer, taking place in PA.

    2. If you bring any guns into PA when you move here, PA knows nothing about them.

    3. As there is no registry, there is no reason to tell PA about anything you build.

    4. Laws may change, but the above points are accurate as of this posting.

    IANAL

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Still a little unclear about the law.

    An 80% lower into a rifle - good to go.

    ANY pistol is supposed to be transferred. So, if I build my 80% into a pistol instead of a rifle, does that now required a serial number and transfer to myself like every other pistol...or being an 80% build it's OK not to? The pistol aspect of it is what's not clear to me.

    Basically, are we ONLY allowed to build rifles out of 80% lowers?


    Of course, the intention of an 80% at all is that it's never found by them.
    Galations 6:9...And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by alpacaheat View Post
    Still a little unclear about the law.

    An 80% lower into a rifle - good to go.

    ANY pistol is supposed to be transferred. So, if I build my 80% into a pistol instead of a rifle, does that now required a serial number and transfer to myself like every other pistol...or being an 80% build it's OK not to? The pistol aspect of it is what's not clear to me.

    Basically, are we ONLY allowed to build rifles out of 80% lowers?


    Of course, the intention of an 80% at all is that it's never found by them.
    Actually, any transfer of a handgun (a 6102 defined "firearm", which includes SBR's) between non-FFL's within PA is supposed to go through an FFL. If there's no transfer, that statute doesn't apply. Same as if you gave or sold a gun to your dad who also lives in PA, no FFL intervention is required.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by alpacaheat View Post
    Still a little unclear about the law.

    An 80% lower into a rifle - good to go.

    ANY pistol is supposed to be transferred. So, if I build my 80% into a pistol instead of a rifle, does that now required a serial number and transfer to myself like every other pistol...or being an 80% build it's OK not to? The pistol aspect of it is what's not clear to me.

    Basically, are we ONLY allowed to build rifles out of 80% lowers?


    Of course, the intention of an 80% at all is that it's never found by them.
    If you build an AR pistol.. you don't need to do anything.. unless you sell it as a pistol later on... then it needs to go through an FFL,, as far as a 80% built pistol goes ..not sure what all you would need to do if selling ....

  7. #37
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    Mar 2012
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    Upper Chichester, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Any FFL worth their salt knows that a strpped lower is classified as "other". Their is no such thing as a pistol or rifle lower.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    Random,

    It's 3:20pm 7/1/08.
    I just got off the phone with Mr. Celedonio from the Harrisburg office of the BATFE.

    The lower receiver does not have to have any special engraving on it for building a pistol. It is already serial numbered and that number is on the FFL's books. It doesn't matter if you build a pistol or a rifle at that point. The only thing that would complicate things would be if you had a pistol upper on it and then put on a shoulder stock (that makes it a SBR and you would have to do the NFA forms to make it legal).

    He also stated that you do not have to have a letter of certification from the manufacturer stating that it is for a pistol because of the generic nature of AR lowers. The only time you have to engrave the lower is if you are making a SBR.

    He told me that the BATFE realizes that people like to change their AR's into different configurations and there is not a problem with that as long as they meet all the regs. The example he gave me was that if someone has a AR pistol and wants to add a rifle upper he can but he better to be ready to prove that he never puts the pistol upper on it when the stock is attached. He said that this could be tough to do so he recommends not to try, just too much to worry about. He also said that if you sell the pistol upper there is nothing that forbids you from putting a rifle upper on it.

    Bottom line is that if you have a lower it can be made into a pistol or rifle with no special engraving needed (other than SBR). If you want to have multiple AR's in the house in both pistol and rifle, you make sure that you NEVER put the pistol upper on a stocked lower.

    This is what was told to me. I am going to send a formal request to the BATFE to get it completely clarified by letter or have them direct me to the appropriate section in the regs/laws. When I get something I will post it.
    We DO realize that all this is UNConstitutionsal, do we not..being that it is infringement and all. dang!

  9. #39
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    (Fayette County)
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Actually, there is no ROS database for the sale of long guns. If a transfer does take place the FFL does not fill out an ROS form. When an FFL transfers a long gun the serial number goes into the 4473 but is not transmitted to PSP. The only information collected by PSP during a long gun transfer is the information on the buyer in order to pass a PICS check.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by Thetune View Post
    Actually, there is no ROS database for the sale of long guns. If a transfer does take place the FFL does not fill out an ROS form. When an FFL transfers a long gun the serial number goes into the 4473 but is not transmitted to PSP. The only information collected by PSP during a long gun transfer is the information on the buyer in order to pass a PICS check.
    So it's not a record of sale, it's just a record of transfer.


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