Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by alpacaheat View Post
    I'm still unclear about all of the legal hoops too.

    If I buy a complete lower, it needs to be transferred by an FFL? This is what I was told by my FFL. --Pistol lower must be transferred

    My hope is to build an AR that doesn't need a serial number, any transfers or Government paper trail. 80% ??

    Can this be done with a buying a complete lower and complete upper kit separately or do I need to go the 80% route and find someone (other than my FFL who does gunsmithing) to finish it for me (since I do not have the tools)?
    Buying a Pistol anything...My understanding must always be transferred.. unless husband to wife/father to som/daughter etc

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by alpacaheat View Post
    ...do I need to go the 80% route and find someone (other than my FFL who does gunsmithing) to finish it for me (since I do not have the tools)?
    Machining an 80% lower for someone else is manufacturing. You need to do it yourself.

    IANAL

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.K View Post
    Machining an 80% lower for someone else is manufacturing. You need to do it yourself.

    IANAL
    I'll just need to borrow some tools then.

    This is why I'm asking questions...so many possible answers.

  4. #24
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    Apr 2012
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by JDA58 View Post
    - If I were to buy a 'virgin' lower from a private party, does it still need to go through an FFL as it is neither a pistol nor rifle at that point, but an "other" ---as long as its Just a virgin lower FTF in Pa no FFL needed

    this is my understanding....
    Quote Originally Posted by JDA58 View Post
    Buying a Pistol anything...My understanding must always be transferred.. unless husband to wife/father to son/daughter etc
    This is where it gets very confusing.

    I can NOT buy a pistol anything FTF without going through an FFL. This I understand.

    But I CAN buy a complete 'virgin' lower, FTF, without going through an FFL, no matter what I intend to build with it (rifle/pistol/SBR) as long as it has never been built to be anything before.... I can then build a pistol out of that lower, without doing any paperwork? If this is true, how do I guarantee myself that it is, indeed, a virgin lower?

    Again, just making sure I do not run afoul of the law...

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by JDA58 View Post
    - If I were to buy a 'virgin' lower from a private party, does it still need to go through an FFL as it is neither a pistol nor rifle at that point, but an "other" ---as long as its Just a virgin lower FTF in Pa no FFL needed

    this is my understanding....
    Quote Originally Posted by JDA58 View Post
    Buying a Pistol anything...My understanding must always be transferred.. unless husband to wife/father to son/daughter etc
    This is where it gets very confusing.

    I can NOT buy a pistol anything FTF without going through an FFL. This I understand.

    But I CAN buy a complete 'virgin' lower, FTF, without going through an FFL, no matter what I intend to build with it (rifle/pistol/SBR) as long as it has never been built to be anything before.... I can then build a pistol out of that lower, without doing any paperwork? If this is true, how do I guarantee myself that it is, indeed, a virgin lower?

    Again, just making sure I do not run afoul of the law...

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by jaseman View Post
    This is where it gets very confusing.

    If this is true, how do I guarantee myself that it is, indeed, a virgin lower?

    Again, just making sure I do not run afoul of the law...
    I guess someone could have bought an AR-15 pistol and later stripped it down to just the lower to sell & kept all the other parts for a different build ?.. So I can't answer that..other than I guess... You can't always know 100%

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by JDA58 View Post
    I guess someone could have bought an AR-15 pistol and later stripped it down to just the lower to sell & kept all the other parts for a different build ?.. So I can't answer that..other than I guess... You can't always know 100%
    And that's the dilemma I have, as well I'm sure as others do. Buying a complete, presumably "virgin" lower FTF without a paper trail, or going through an FFL. Both completely legal, but one poses a bit of risk, legally speaking.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    You can't transfer any firearm or frame across state lines without using an FFL; that's Federal law.

    You can't transfer a firearm as defined by PA law privately, without an FFL, except under limited circumstances.

    A pistol frame without any barrel doesn't meet the UFA default definition of a "firearm", in the context of a transfer. "Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable."

    A frame of any kind DOES fall within the re-definition of a "firearm" for purposes of prohibited persons; there's no "pistol frame loophole" that allows felons and other prohibited persons to acquire guns legally through the back door. Just because the law doesn't require an FFL for long gins or non-firearms, doesn't change the fact that a prohibited person violates the law by possessing them. Existing law makes it illegal for prohibited persons to possess ". . . any weapons which are designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon."
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Free seminar 7/18/19 in Quakertown: https://www.senatormensch.com/concealed-carry-seminar/

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    You can't transfer any firearm or frame across state lines without using an FFL; that's Federal law.

    You can't transfer a firearm as defined by PA law privately, without an FFL, except under limited circumstances.

    A pistol frame without any barrel doesn't meet the UFA default definition of a "firearm", in the context of a transfer. "Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable."

    A frame of any kind DOES fall within the re-definition of a "firearm" for purposes of prohibited persons; there's no "pistol frame loophole" that allows felons and other prohibited persons to acquire guns legally through the back door. Just because the law doesn't require an FFL for long gins or non-firearms, doesn't change the fact that a prohibited person violates the law by possessing them. Existing law makes it illegal for prohibited persons to possess ". . . any weapons which are designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon."
    dont know.jpg

    face.jpg

    WHAT!!! ????

    I think that's what I was saying... with out the fancy talk LOL

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Building an AR15 Pistol

    So anyhow, can I buy all the parts and make a pistol.....then apply to make an SBR and put a stock on it once i get approved and be done?

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