So you CAN concealed carry in Philadelphia?

[PAMedic=F|A=]

I need to go to the State Office Building at 1400 W. Spring Garden St. in Philly tomorrow. Does anyone have any experience with CCW'ing there with a PA LTC? Are there metal detectors? Lockers to store guns? Is it posted with signs?

I was unable to find any specific regulations prohibiting CCW in State office buildings, but I know from the rally I went to that the Capital has metal detectors and lockers to store guns.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Also, with respect to the Philadelphia Historic areas, the map does not show clearly the boundaries of properties under NPS jurisdiction.

I would not CCW in any Federally owned NPS facility, but I believe that the streets and private buildings would fall under PA law rather than NPS regulation, absent some specific legal agreement removing such areas from local government control.

The Constitution Center, for example, is owned by a private foundation. Private guards (not NPS police) searched visitor's bags and had wands, but they did not have metal detectors, as of a few months ago.

I have parked in the garage, which is accessed through the lobby and never was hassled about CCW.

My understanding is that is because the PA Supreme Court has chambers there - which is why they have the checkpoint. I also understand that they are moving, at which point the checkpoint well no longer be legal....

[PSUWaz00]

Post office is not "their opinion." There is a separate federal law for postal facilities, carry in a post office is not prohibited by 18 USC 930.

However, VA healthcare facilities started posting their campus grounds a few years ago (under Obama), saying no weapons are allowed on the grounds. But the signs specifically reference 18 USC 930, and 18 USC 930 specifically is limited to "buildings" where federal employees are normally engaged in their work.

That said, I can't afford to become the test case for VA hospitals. Wish I could, because I'm sure the VA would lose.

The said part is I bet the VA would spend money they don't have to help veterans in need to fight you tooth and nail in court....

[djpup]

I was reading this thread and didn't realize that someone brought back an almost 6 year old post when I saw Meleanie's post talking about her husband. Creepy.

Why creepy?

[tl_3237]

Post office is not "their opinion." There is a separate federal law for postal facilities, carry in a post office is not prohibited by 18 USC 930.

However, VA healthcare facilities started posting their campus grounds a few years ago (under Obama), saying no weapons are allowed on the grounds. But the signs specifically reference 18 USC 930, and 18 USC 930 specifically is limited to "buildings" where federal employees are normally engaged in their work.

That said, I can't afford to become the test case for VA hospitals. Wish I could, because I'm sure the VA would lose.

Citation???

[twency]

Why creepy?

Sadly she was subsequently murdered by her husband.

[twency]

According to a federal judge in Colorado the prohibition against carry in a USPS parking lot is not presumptively legal. But that won't do you much good if you get caught carrying in one here in the Third Circuit.

http://www.mountainstateslegal.org/n...-v.-usps-order

_________
Edited to be very clear: That decision was specific to the facts of that case, was decided at the lowest level of the federal court system, and was in a different federal circuit (region). I'm not suggesting that one may carry in a USPS parking lot here without risking a criminal record.

[sir Joseph]

At the end though it was ruled OK and the reasoning should be the same for most other parking lots in the same scenario, and of course not mine in Liberal Merion.

[tl_3237]

At the end though it was ruled OK and the reasoning should be the same for most other parking lots in the same scenario, and of course not mine in Liberal Merion.

As twency indicated, the decision is not binding precedent in Pa as well as the other caveats that he rightfully pointed out.

Several years ago the issue of USPS parking lots was addressed in several threads, inter alia:

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/529...e-box-car.html
http://forum.pafoa.org/lounge-108/16...fice-guns.html

Quoting myself at that time:

Holy conflicting laws batman... You're not kidding. Hah, isn't that typical?

I don't have cites. What I'm stating here is taken from the notes I scribbled hastily during my CWP course last year.

Personally I'll err on the side of caution and not bring my firearm to the post office

I'm of the same mind with the exception of PO parking lots. In a thread , now almost 3 years old, this was discussed ad nauseum. I finally decided to inquire at that time:

Just got off the phone with the US Postal Inspection Service in Philadelphia. They are the agency who would handle the arrest and processing of the complaint for violations of law on Postal Property in our region.

In my very pleasurable discussion with Agent John Crockett (877-876-2455) he informed me that there is no violation for a licensed individual to park in the public portion of the PO parking lot, secure their firearm in the locked vehicle, enter the building unarmed, conduct their business, return to the vehicle, rearm, and leave postal property. It is the intent of the law to prohibit employees from having weapons as well as firearms being carried into the BUILDINGS by non-LEO.

It is a violation to introduce firearms into non-public (restricted) areas of Postal Property such as in the Dorosan case which he was aware of as well as other similar cases with successful prosecutions.

He further related that the issue came up several times while he was at the Tampa office and they always advised that, except for LEO, simply lock the firearm in the car before entering the building.

Although he could not refer me to anything in writing on the Internet he did invite anyone with further questions to call him directly.

Regarding PO parking lots only (DO NOT TAKE A FREARM INTO THE PO BUILDING):

Yes, I know the adage not to trust advice from LEOs and such but what the inspector related to me in our talk made sense - maybe because it seemed correct or my wishful thinking that it was.

For those interested there was a Federal case against defendant CLARENCE PAUL DOROSAN that eventually went to the 5th circuit in 2009. Among other tacts, he appealed based on 2A rights. Dorosan was a PO employee in whose vehicle, parked in the restricted section of the PO parking lot, was found a handgun. He was charged under 39 CFR 232.1(l) and adjudicated guilty. During his appeals the Federal courts made pains to distinguish that his possession in a 'restricted' (non-public) part of the PO parking lot constituted a 'sensitive area' (as cited in Heller) and the purpose of the CFR was to provide a safe 'workplace'. This was in-line with what Agent Crockett explained to me that there is a distinction made between the public and 'private' sections of the lot.

Again, I'm not espousing to anyone that the laws permit the possession of firearms in the public area of PO parking lots but just throwing it out there for others to contemplate - your decision/your risk.