How old to purchase a handgun?

[Frenchy]

Not even enough snow to make him a decent snowman without hitting grass.

Rake up them leaves, put a white sheet or blanket over them then throw snow on top... Dont miss that picture!!! you will regret to live it later

[Xringshooter]

TWlurkwer, If you're looking for a good home defense weapon don't go with a handgun, the best home defense is a shotgun. With the right loads you don't have worry about the penetration of the shot through the walls (unless you're using slugs). Also, get a pump gun, the sound of that action being cycled tells everyone what you have and in a close environment you probably are not going to miss.

[boardorgohome]

Ok so here is my question on top of his....if a parent buys the handgun for me and hands it over can i legally register the gun in my name?

I have a few rifles but i've been wanting a handgun since i shot my step fathers 9mm...i made the mistake of going to look at guns on saturday and now i want one and i only turn 20 next month. So i was going to have my mother buy the gun as a birthday gift to me and i was going to basically pay for it myself and then once i turn 21 register it in my name and file the papers for my permit to carry if i ever feel the need.

Thanks guys

[Xringshooter]

What you just described, the way you described it, would not be legal. What you described would be, I am almost positive, classed as a "Straw Man" purchase (you are telling what to buy and are providing the money for the purchase). A straw man purchase is the purchase of a firearm by someone that can legally own a firearm with the intent to give, sell, trade, etc. to a person who cannot legally buy/own/possess a firearm. That being said, even the ability of a parent to legally give a firearm to their child, both parties still have to conform to the law. Your mother could "give" you a handgun, you can "own" it, but you cannot legally carrystore (possess) it by yourself until you are 21. So, if Mom gives you the handgun and you are in possession of it, you are breaking the law (unless you are at a shooting range, hunting , etc. and your parent(s) is with you.) A parent can give a firearm to a child without a background check being done but that does not exempt them or you from abiding to all of the other laws. For example, your parent(s) could not give you a firearm if you could not legally own one (felony conviction, DUI, PFA order against you, etc.)

The parent-child, grandparent-child, sibling-sibling giving of firearms only pertains to the backgound check exemption. It does not exempt you or them from any other firearms law.

I guess to answer your opening question " ...if a parent buys the handgun for me and hands it over can i legally register the gun in my name?" is maybe.

If you were 21 and had nothing on your record that would make it illegal to own a handgun then yes you could. If you were over 21 and had something on your record that made it illegal for you to own a handgun then no. If you are under 21 with a clean record you could do the registration when you are 21 and in the mean time your parent would have to maintain possession of the handgun.

Hope this helps, you just need to remember that you cannot buy a handgun until you are 21. You can own and possess an handgun while under 21 but only under certain circumstances (see above about hunting, target shooting)

Ron

[billamj]

One more time. There is no "registration" of firearms in the state of Pennsylvania. It does not occur. Can we please drop this verbiage?

[Xringshooter]

billamj,

Although there is no formal "registration" in PA, when someone buys a firearm from an FFL, or sells one to another person with the FFL handling the transfer, we (FFL holders) and the customer have to fill out the Application/record of sale (the PICS form). On that form, the make, model, caliber and serial number of the firearm is recorded. A copy is kept in my records, a copy goes to the purchaser and a copy (in the case of a handgun or long gun(as required in section 6111(b)(1.1)(i)) gets sent to the PA State Police Firearms Unit in Harrisburg. So, although there is no "registration" the state does have a name connected to a particular firearm.

I the future I willl try my best not to use the term "registration" when discussing the PICS or the forms that must be completed during the sale or transfer of a firearm.

By the way, I was mildly chastised by the PSP the first time I ever submitted the Application/record of sale (it was for a Savage rifle in 17 HMR) and they politely told me that I did not need to send this to Harrisburg, only handguns and the long arms outlined in 6111 (b)... This info was duly noted by me (LOL).

Ron

[boardorgohome]

I can legally buy a firearm just not a handgun because im not 21 as of yet. I want one for target shooting and home protection to an extent. I know its not that good for that because of how the bullets can penetrate walls and harm my other family members but im not going to buy a shotgun simply for home protection, its a waste of money.

Im not a thug or a gangster and i dont ever plan on carrying the gun illegally, i will take it to the shooting range but if the law states that i must have a legal adult over 21 to occompany me i will do that.

So as far as legality i can not "own" a handgun period until im 21?

Either way my mother is buying it for my birthday and it will just be hers until i turn 21 then we will do the neccesary actions to make it legally mine.

[Rule10b5]

What you just described, the way you described it, would not be legal. What you described would be, I am almost positive, classed as a "Straw Man" purchase (you are telling what to buy and are providing the money for the purchase). A straw man purchase is the purchase of a firearm by someone that can legally own a firearm with the intent to give, sell, trade, etc. to a person who cannot legally buy/own/possess a firearm. That being said, even the ability of a parent to legally give a firearm to their child, both parties still have to conform to the law. Your mother could "give" you a handgun, you can "own" it, but you cannot legally carrystore (possess) it by yourself until you are 21. So, if Mom gives you the handgun and you are in possession of it, you are breaking the law (unless you are at a shooting range, hunting , etc. and your parent(s) is with you.) A parent can give a firearm to a child without a background check being done but that does not exempt them or you from abiding to all of the other laws. For example, your parent(s) could not give you a firearm if you could not legally own one (felony conviction, DUI, PFA order against you, etc.)

The parent-child, grandparent-child, sibling-sibling giving of firearms only pertains to the backgound check exemption. It does not exempt you or them from any other firearms law.

I guess to answer your opening question " ...if a parent buys the handgun for me and hands it over can i legally register the gun in my name?" is maybe.

If you were 21 and had nothing on your record that would make it illegal to own a handgun then yes you could. If you were over 21 and had something on your record that made it illegal for you to own a handgun then no. If you are under 21 with a clean record you could do the registration when you are 21 and in the mean time your parent would have to maintain possession of the handgun.

Hope this helps, you just need to remember that you cannot buy a handgun until you are 21. You can own and possess an handgun while under 21 but only under certain circumstances (see above about hunting, target shooting)

Ron

Ron,

You're very well-intentioned, but incorrect on a couple of points.

First, under Federal and Pennsylvania law, it is perfectly legal for a person over 18, but under 21, to own, possess, and transport a handgun.

I've provided the citation to the law that says it is legal. Please provide a citation to the law that says it isn't. 18 Pa.C.S.A. § 6110.1 relates only to persons under the age of 18.

Second, your "straw man" argument is correct: He may not give his mother money with the understanding that she will then purchase a handgun for him and then gift it to him. But, he may ask his mother for a gun as a gift.

If he decides to give her a gift later of cash, and that gift is wholly unrelated to the gifting of the firearm, he hasn't broken the law. Of course, merely by having this discussion, he's indicated an intent to have a quid pro quo deal with his mother, so he's out of luck unless she just gives him a handgun out of the blue

Third, if the handgun is gifted to him by his mother, and the transaction is otherwise legal, he need not file or complete any paperwork. She just hands him the gun and that's the end of it.

[Rule10b5]

So as far as legality i can not "own" a handgun period until im 21?

Either way my mother is buying it for my birthday and it will just be hers until i turn 21 then we will do the neccesary actions to make it legally mine.

No.

As I noted in my prior posts, you may own, possess, and transport a handgun in Pa. if you are over the age of 18, and not otherwise disqualified (and comply with all laws relating to transport, storage, carry, etc.). It's purchasing, and legally bringing the gun in to your possession/ownership that's the complicated part.

As others have noted, however, as you can't carry it concealed at your age, you'd do better to buy a shotgun. You only have to be 18, they're cheaper, easier to learn, and more effective for home defense.

[Xringshooter]

boardorgohome,

It's not so much as owning the handgun as it is having in your possession. Your grandfather could have given you a handgun but until you are 21 you can't carry it without having him, your parent(s) or legal guardian with you (at the range). As far as I know it cannot just be an adult over 21, it has to be either the person who gave it to you or your parent(s)/legal guardian.

One thought on your mother buying it and then giving it to you for your 21st birthday. That is perfectly legal, however, that being said, if you and your mom go into a gunshop and you show and tell her what you want, the shop owner will probably be asking some questions (I know I would) to ascertain that the purchase was not going to be a straw man purchase. Don't be upset with the gun dealer, he is just looking out for his business and livelyhood. The PA State Police and the BATFE are consistantly warning gun dealers to be alert to straw purchases (more so now because of 9/11). Both the Feds and the State will hammer a gun dealer if they find out that they have done even one transaction that was a straw purchase (if the dealer can prove that they could not have forseen it, they will be severly warned and watched more closely).

On the above paragraph, here are some of the questions and comments I would present to you and you mother if you were trying to buy a handgun from me:

Who is the firearm for? "My son, for his 21st birthday"
When will he be 21? "Next year, he just turned 20"
Why are you buying it now? "So we can go to the range so he can practice" This would be a legitimate answer but I would then ask,
Why not wait until he is closer to 21 or 21? I would listen to this answer and then ask followup questions to try to insure it's not a straw purchase.

There are many different scenerios to this purchase but the dealer has to be certain in his mind that the firearm purchase meets ALL the points of the law. If the dealer is the least bit hesitant he will probably tell you that at this time he is not going to sell you the firearm and welcome you to come back closer to the 21st birthday. Again he is looking out for his business. If he already knows you and your parents the sale may not have any problems. If he does not know you he may think that it is a test of his policies by an undercover team from PSP or BATFE (and they will do this). He will probably also talk to his other dealer friends and gunshops to see if they had been approached in the same way. If he is VERY suspicious, he may call the local law enforcement agency, the PSP or even the BATFE. Please don't hold it against the gun dealer, if he gets in trouble he will not only be out of business but most likely lose everything he owns to include his freedom (jail time).

If its a local gunshop you are going to, develope a relationship with the shop owner. Stop by the shop, explain what is going on, see what the reaction is, admire his guns, talk shop, ask questions, ask questions, ask questions. I have never been in a gunshop that the shop owner or the regulars that hang out there won't go out of their way to help any person interested in learning more about firearms.

I know that this was long, but I wanted you to know what may happen.

All of that said, if your mom goes to a gunshop by herself and purchases the handgun, probably nothing will happen other that the proper filling out of the paperwork. However, if the handgun she picks out strikes the shop owner as something that most women would NOT use, he may ask questions. If your mom isn't really gun savvy, it could lead to the purchase being suspect (see above paragraphs). That is why I say to cultivate a relationship with the gunshop. Most shop owners are not suspicious about firearms sales but we have been told many times to watch for the warning signs of a possible illegal purchase.

I hope this helps explain things from a gunshop owners' perspective. A warning though, if you like to shoot, once you start shooting a handgun you may get sucked into the handgunners black hole (competitions, accessories, reloading, handgunners forums on the web, etc. LOL)