Transporting Loaded Long Gun

**checkers87** · October 22nd, 2014, 12:04 AM

This is more of a question out of curiosity. With a LTCF are you allowed to transport a loaded rifle or shotgun? For example, such as having a shotgun in the back seat loaded and driving to the range. A friend of mine who has his LTCF was telling me how a police officer told him awhile ago he couldn't even with the LTCF.

**arjohnson** · October 22nd, 2014, 12:09 AM

No you can't.

**Bang** · October 22nd, 2014, 12:09 AM

Not 100 percent on this but I think the problem is it is a violation of game laws. Even if not actively engaged in hunting if something is in season (something usually is) it can be a game violation. Otherwise, seems pretty silly to allow loaded handgun and not loaded long gun, I know, but that's just one example of how silly a lot of gun laws are.

**knight0334** · October 22nd, 2014, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Bang

Not 100 percent on this but I think the problem is it is a violation of game laws. Even if not actively engaged in hunting if something is in season (something usually is) it can be a game violation. Otherwise, seems pretty silly to allow loaded handgun and not loaded long gun, I know, but that's just one example of how silly a lot of gun laws are.

It is a violation of the UFA and the game laws. However game laws only apply going to/during/from hunting, trapping, and dog training.

The reasons are to help limit poaching, and the fact that nearly all long guns cannot be wielded in a vehicle, then on top of that - if you are in a vehicle you have a reasonable means to flee before you could remotely justify getting out to wield the long gun for defense.

**SevenMilePete** · October 22nd, 2014, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by checkers87

This is more of a question out of curiosity. With a LTCF are you allowed to transport a loaded rifle or shotgun? For example, such as having a shotgun in the back seat loaded and driving to the range. A friend of mine who has his LTCF was telling me how a police officer told him awhile ago he couldn't even with the LTCF.

Short answer:NO. Not even in your vehicle's trunk.

**ArcticSplash** · October 22nd, 2014, 02:15 AM

I think the answer in PUFA is here...

18 Pa.C.S. § 6106.1: Carrying loaded weapons other than firearms
(a) General rule.-- Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1), (2), (5) or (6) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) nor shall the provisions of this section be construed to permit persons to carry firearms in a vehicle where such conduct is prohibited by section 6106.
(b) Penalty.--A person who violates the provisions of this section commits a summary offense.

In 6102 the definition of firearm is:

"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

So.. this Mossberg has a 14" barrel, probably 15" if you want to get picky about the back of the action where the actual firing pin is....
http://www.impactguns.com/mossberg-5...813516891.aspx

Wouldn't that meet this test and be allowed to be carried loaded in a car? Granted, it's stupid as all-get-out but splitting hairs...

**GunLawyer001** · October 22nd, 2014, 02:31 AM

Been discussed many, many times here. A registered NFA SBR or SBS can be carried loaded, with a PA LTCF (and some other licenses or permits). Anything that qualifies as a "firearm" under 6102 is obviously not "other than a firearm".

What counts as "loaded" is tricky. Because Title I (non-NFA) rifles and shotguns are not 6102 "firearms", any long gun regulated by the ban on carrying loaded rifles or shotguns "other than firearms" by definition is not actually controlled by the 6102 definition of "loaded", because that definition says " a firearm is loaded" if..... There's no definition that says "a gun other than a firearm is loaded if..."

So if you were caught with an AR-15 with a loaded mag in the well, nothing chambered, there would be a non-frivolous argument that the UFA default definition of "loaded" is inapplicable, and that the more common definition of "loaded" should apply. You could argue (but probably lose) that unless a round is chambered and ready to go, your gun is not "loaded". It's not "ready to fire".

It would be a better argument if you had the gun and the detached mag in the same pouch, which would still be considered "loaded" under the default, but not in any nation's military or police force. "Loaded" is different than "ammo is available".

Safest approach is to buy one of those assault bags, with mag pockets on the outside. Stuff loaded mags in those pockets, put the empty gun in the main compartment, and you're good to go.

**ArcticSplash** · October 22nd, 2014, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

Been discussed many, many times here. A registered NFA SBR or SBS can be carried loaded, with a PA LTCF (and some other licenses or permits). Anything that qualifies as a "firearm" under 6102 is obviously not "other than a firearm".

What counts as "loaded" is tricky. Because Title I (non-NFA) rifles and shotguns are not 6102 "firearms", any long gun regulated by the ban on carrying loaded rifles or shotguns "other than firearms" by definition is not actually controlled by the 6102 definition of "loaded", because that definition says " a firearm is loaded" if..... There's no definition that says "a gun other than a firearm is loaded if..."

So if you were caught with an AR-15 with a loaded mag in the well, nothing chambered, there would be a non-frivolous argument that the UFA default definition of "loaded" is inapplicable, and that the more common definition of "loaded" should apply. You could argue (but probably lose) that unless a round is chambered and ready to go, your gun is not "loaded". It's not "ready to fire".

It would be a better argument if you had the gun and the detached mag in the same pouch, which would still be considered "loaded" under the default, but not in any nation's military or police force. "Loaded" is different than "ammo is available".

Safest approach is to buy one of those assault bags, with mag pockets on the outside. Stuff loaded mags in those pockets, put the empty gun in the main compartment, and you're good to go.

Wow that is really tricky, thanks for going into that (for you, probably the 800th time). I can imagine the motions flying back and forth arguing over the precise UFA legal definition of loaded vs. all the colloquial interpretations.

That also scares me into making sure that no ammo is anywhere near my long guns while in transport except for my carry pistol.