Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Advice in training female shooter.

    Yesterday the girlfriend and I went to pmsc around 11 and shot for over 2 hours. The main objective was to get her more trigger time with the 9mm and improve her accuracy. We started out with the targets at the back of the berm (25-30 ft?) and she was having trouble hitting the 12" targets. So I switched her to the .22 and she had a group of about 7". She tried the steel plates which I think are 7yds away with the 22 and hit the same spot on all 10 plates 1 second per shot . I am worried that with the red dot scope on the .22 she isn't learning to use the irons which is hurting more then helping.


    We tried isosceles, and weaver. She has the right grip and stance, is right eyed dom., correct trigger finger. She tried from the bench, shooting one handed, both eye's open and not much seemed to improve. She will anticipate recoil unless reminded of doing so. Not on the 22 only the 9mm. Has a bad habit of holding her breath while focusing and was also milking the grip while pulling the trigger on the 9 which we worked on.

    Could you guy's give me any suggestions to keep her from getting frustrated and help her improve her shooting. I am trying to keep it fun for her, but its not much fun when she can't hit the paper. I am thinking perhaps a full size 9mm since the sub comp is lighter. Should I pull the red dot off the .22 and have her stick to the irons? I have snap caps and was going to hide a couple in the magazines but don't see how that would help. This is her 5th time ever shooting, total of around 600 rounds in the xd.
    No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Advice in training female shooter.

    Best advice I can give you is stop.

    Quit teaching her.

    Send her to a Beginners Handgun Course.

    No matter how much you love her. Betterhalfs and kid won't listen to you like they will a stranger. And stranger will be more paitient with her than you ever will. The certified instructor will pick up things that you will never notice. He won't overload her brain. She will relax and won't be trying to impress you anymore. She can concentrate on learning and not making you happy.

    I am a NRA Certified Instructor and I took my betterhalf to a Beginners Handgun Course before I ever took her to the range. Best move I ever made. Let someone else teach her the basics. Then you can take her out and let her shoot and enjoy herself. The classes aren't that expensive. If you don't want to take the course. You can sit back and watch from the sidelines. I took the course with her. And I learned something too.
    The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control....
    The day they want my guns, they'll have to bring theirs!!!
    Proud to be One of the 3%

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Advice in training female shooter.

    Starte her at a closer distance if possible. say 3 to 5 feet. When the groups are tight, move back a couple feet and start again. 30 feet is a long distance for a new pistol shooter.

    Also... Don't go switching grips, stances, etc... Pick one and practice it until she is proficient at it. Then move on to something new.

    I would suggest removing the red dot sight. Have her become a good shooter with open sights first.

    As for placing snap caps into the magazine, that's a good idea to check for recoil flinching, trigger squeeze, etc... But save that for later when she's a bit more comfortable with shooting.

    Just my thoughts...
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Advice in training female shooter.

    You're too close to the problem; too emotionally attached. Have her take a Beginner's Handgun Course with an impartial third party. The last thing my kids wanted was for me to teach them how to drive. It's too frustrating on all parties concerned.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Advice in training female shooter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkski View Post
    Best advice I can give you is stop.

    Quit teaching her.

    Send her to a Beginners Handgun Course.

    Grrrr must control situation . Yeah thats one thing I never thought of. Are you sure that I can't just buy more gun's till it works . These beginner handgun courses, are they like the one's F.I.R.E. holds every so often? Cost isn't my worry I just want her to improve. So i'll check and see when they are holding their next one.
    No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Advice in training female shooter.

    The hardest part from switching from a red dot to irons is maintaining the focal plane.

    She does have the basics for grip and pull if she shoots the red dot well, but...when switching to irons does she know to treat the front post like a dot? That is....the front sight must be in focus. A bright red fiber front sight may be the ticket for the transition.

    Make sure she's just having fun. Yes, you can shoot all day and not hit anything and have fun.....just ask a hunter. It's really ok.

    And...ask her what she wants to do.

    Lycanmaysaveyousomepenniesthrope

    I taught Chuck Norris to bump-fire.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Advice in training female shooter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingdonhavoc View Post
    These beginner handgun courses, are they like the one's F.I.R.E. holds every so often?
    Yep, I took my bettterhalf to one that Tony (F.I.R.E.) gave. She loved it. Before the class she was very nervous about handling the pistol. Now she wants to attend the 3 day course they offer and wants to get her LTCF. Best money and time I have spent with the betterhalf when it comes to guns.
    The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control....
    The day they want my guns, they'll have to bring theirs!!!
    Proud to be One of the 3%

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Advice in training female shooter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingdonhavoc View Post
    Has a bad habit of holding her breath while focusing and was also milking the grip while pulling the trigger on the 9 which we worked on.
    I agree with Mtbkski to get her to a basic handgun course, but even that won't cure what she's doing.

    It's not uncommon for new shooters to milk the gun when shooting and it can be a habit that's hard to get people to break. A huge first step is what you've already done in recognizing the mechanics of what she's doing wrong.

    The best advice I can provide at this time is to (1) spend some time to have them concentrate on their strong hand fingers instead of their trigger finger when shooting. Place the mental focus on maintaining a constant pressure with the grip and for the time being ignore what the trigger finger exactly does. This will help decouple the grip from the trigger press.

    Then (2) next step is to decouple the reset. The best drill I've found is to take up a typical firing grip (firm), and then press and reset the trigger (don't bother cocking it again, just keep doing it with a "simulated" amount of pressure that would release the hammer/striker if it were cocked) without changing the degree of pressure of the grip (or obviously disturbing the sights). Just have her concentrate on maintaining precisely the same amount of pressure in the gripping fingers without moving them while manipulating the trigger -- without concentrating on the trigger finger.

    Finally (3) the thumb. The thumb can be a tough one as humans are for the most part programmed to squeeze thumb and trigger finger together to grasp things. Same deal. To avoid moving the thumb, focus on not moving the thumb while everything else stays the same.

    Again, what helps a lot of people is not to focus on the trigger finger but to focus on the other fingers in trying to separate the pathways from brain to hand that allow the trigger finger to move and apply pressure completely independent of the other fingers. Some people just "get it" sooner than others. The practice can be boring so unless she's really into learning how to shoot, giver her some pointers and let her pick it up at her own pace.

    I'll also note that it is possible to initially ignore "yanking" or "jerking" or "too much" or "too little" trigger if the rest of the hand is trained to maintain a firm immobile firing grip on the gun as the trigger is pressed (so the focus moves away from avoiding having the (relatively light) trigger pressure actually move the gun to instead having the hand hold the gun immobile as the trigger is pressed and reset).

    The difference in approach is that most people want to focus on the squeeze and surprise break of the trigger when what often really helps is to completely ignore that and focus on what the hand is really doing wrong during trigger press and reset -- moving the darn gun or allowing a few pounds of pressure in the trigger finger to move it. Anyway, give it a try and let me know if it works for your girlfriend.
    Last edited by Philadelphia; June 29th, 2008 at 01:17 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Advice in training female shooter.

    We went over the front sight rule which she understood but i'm sure a fiber optic wouldn't hurt. I was looking at tfo's but have heard the front sight on the xd was a nightmare to remove and I don't know any local gunsmiths. Dryfire helped me alot, and plus it would help her gain strength in working the slide so perhaps i'll suggest that. On a side note does anyone know the limit in caliber for the steel plates at the main range. I had her shooting .22 because I didn't know. We met up with the caretaker to sign her in and he was telling us about the folks training dogs around the bend and the carrier pigeons. Such a nice place and we had the range to ourselves for most of the time other then the two nice officers beside us for about a half hour. I believe they were shooting ipsc on the other side which we were gonna watch but went to denny's instead. Hopefully next shoot she can borrow someone's 20ga for a couple shots since she wanted to try a shotgun but I don't have the fund's to get one at the moment. I have never shot one either so it would be a learning experience for both of us.
    No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Advice in training female shooter.

    I have never thought of that philadelphia. The reason I suspect she's milking the grip is that the gun is steady but the further the trigger comes back the more her grip shakes. It has a very light trigger pull so I didn't think it was from straining her hand, just squeezing the grip to prepare for recoil. I think next time I shouldn't shoot and just let her do her thing. I grabbed plugs from the truck with along with the muff's provides plenty of noise reduction. I also have a pistol rest that I will bring along next time to let her see the positive shot placement a steady hand will bring. She did have a blast and was excited all day about it so I know with proper training she will do well. Would the club be cool with me making a movable target holder outta 2x4's so she can shoot from 15 ft or so. They had one there but it was blasted to hell. I'll probably spray paint it so they don't think i'm stealing their holders when we leave .
    Last edited by Huntingdonhavoc; June 29th, 2008 at 01:36 PM.
    No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full

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