Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    New Castle, Pennsylvania
    (Lawrence County)
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    Default AR Pistol vs SBR

    Ok, so I've been looking at posts on various boards, and here's what I'm coming up with.

    For an AR pistol:
    -Barrel length shorter than 16" from tip of the threads to the receiver.
    -Barrel length does not include muzzle device, unless muzzle device is permanently fixed.
    -Overall length must be within 26", or it will fall under "firearm" instead of "pistol", but will NOT be subject to NFA.
    -CANNOT have a stock fixed to the lower receiver.
    -The Sig SB15 brace does NOT constitute a stock.
    -CANNOT have a vertical foregrip or it will constitute a Any Other Weapon (AOW) and thus be subject to NFA.
    -A Magpul Angled Forgrip (AFG) IS permissible and will not make the pistol an AOW.
    -Classified as a pistol, doesn't require CLEO signoff, and not subject to NFA.

    For an SBR:
    -Barrel length shorter than 16", like above.
    -Has a stock attached to the lower receiver.
    -Must file Form 1 paperwork and pay the $200 tax stamp.
    -CLEO signoff on paperwork.

    So... if I wanted to build an AR pistol from the ground up, I get a stripped lower, get a pistol lower kit, and throw on an upper with a barrel that's less than 16". As long as the OAL is less than 26", I'm good. I can add an SB15 stock and an AFG if I wanted, and I'm good. Viola, AR pistol with a fair lengthed barrel and the compactness of an SBR, as well as the controlability of a rifle.

    No CLEO signature, NFA paperwork, extra $200, or 9 month wait.

    Did I get that right?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    central, Pennsylvania
    (Northumberland County)
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    Default Re: AR Pistol vs SBR

    That all looks right to me.

    Added note, of course, is that the pistol doesn't require the approved 5320.20 form for interstate travel like the SBR. As long as you're legal in the destination state...

    Happy building.
    I am not a lawyer.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    New Castle, Pennsylvania
    (Lawrence County)
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    Default Re: AR Pistol vs SBR

    This isn't a project I'll be starting anytime soon; I'm just making sure I have an understanding of things before I do start. I'm also pricing things out to see what this'll cost me and what my options are.

    It looks like I'll be going to Palmetto State Armory again, unless y'all know of better deals.

    PSA blemished stripped lower: $49.99
    PSA lower pistol kit: $99.99
    PSA 14.7" CHF Mid-length Lightweight - Unpinned - Without BCG or Charging Handle: $279.99
    PSA bolt carrier group and charging handle combo: $99.99
    Sig SB15 brace: $129.99
    Primary Arms Microdot: $119.99

    Total estimated cost: $780

    Now to get fancy, and totally unnecessary:
    YHM 9.200" Smooth Forearm (A-frame cutout): $154.00

    Total estimated cost: $934

    Now there is a chance to get a PSA pistol lower with a SB15 brace for a little less, which shaves off about $10.

    Factor in shipping and transfer fees, and it's likely going to be right under $1,000. All that without dealing with NFA laws, paperwork, or tax stamp.



    ------------------------


    PSA AR-15 completed lower
    : $149.99
    PSA 14.7" CHF Mid-length Lightweight - Unpinned - Without BCG or Charging Handle: $279.99
    PSA bolt carrier group and charging handle combo: $99.99
    Primary Arms Microdot: $119.99
    Tax Stamp: $200

    Estimated Total: $850

    And, of course, I /would/ add a rail to it. So...
    YHM Rail: $154.00

    Estimated Total: $1,004

    And that's before shipping and transfer fees and waiting.

    I think I know what I'll be doing in the future.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: AR Pistol vs SBR

    I just saw that Primary Arms has complete pistols w/brace, minus sights for $599


    Never heard of the brand though, so I dunno, but that's not bad for out of the box ready to go.
    WTB - Virgin AR15 STRIPPED LOWER needed (click for Classified)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    New Castle, Pennsylvania
    (Lawrence County)
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    Default Re: AR Pistol vs SBR

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    I just saw that Primary Arms has complete pistols w/brace, minus sights for $599


    Never heard of the brand though, so I dunno, but that's not bad for out of the box ready to go.
    0.0 Holy shit, epic win there. Must spread reputation before giving you some more to you. Awesome find, Emptymag!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Talking Re: AR Pistol vs SBR

    I'd definitely recommend a 10.5 inch barrel as opposed to the shorter 7.5 and 8.5 inch. Seem to run better, generally, and you have better control of the weapon.

    Ar15.com has quite a few reviews of the radical firearms pistols, mostly positive. Their Facebook page will update when they ship to Primary Arms.

    I'd also highly recommend the super buffer tube from KAK Industries. It's killer!
    I don't watch shark week. Sharks watch FLICK week.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    SomewhereWestPA, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: AR Pistol vs SBR

    Something else to consider with the "new" arm-braces available; no real need to SBR the gun on NFA paperwork.

    The less the Feds have on you, the better.

    And it is a LOT easier, faster to sell a non-NFA item than it is an NFA item should you get bored with it or need the ducats...
    All of my guns are lubed with BACON GREASE.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Apollo, Pennsylvania
    (Armstrong County)
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    Default Re: AR Pistol vs SBR

    I personally would go SBR, the Sig brace is retarded in my opinion, but thats just me.

    Like Flick posted, go with 10.5-11.5" barrel. Whats the point of building a "pistol" with a 14.5" barrel? I ask this to guys actually going the SBR route and running a 14.5" barrel....pay an extra $200 to remove 1.5" of overall length. Not worth it to me, even for a "clone" build.
    You can get easy hits at 200yd with a 10.5" barrel all day.

    What NFA laws do you not want to deal with?
    If you travel to different states a LOT, then i can see that being an inconvenience, but not a show stopper.
    Form 1 paper work is 5 min of your time to fill out, you sign and date in 3 places, get prints/photos/sign-offs, mail it and wait.
    But its not for everyone, i know that.

    BCM 11.5" upper w/free BCG - $439 - add drop in quad rail and CH = $614
    http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-1...-urg-m4-11.htm
    Lower - $43 (plus shipping/transfer)
    https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail....m_id=100001677
    LPK w/stock kit - $130
    http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.../category/388/
    Engraving - $50-75
    Tax stamp - $200

    $1062
    HGW, llc ~ Title 1 & NFA sales/manufacturing ~ Transfers - Title 1 $20 - NFA $50

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Mt. Pleasant
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    Default Re: AR Pistol vs SBR

    a pistol can have ANY length barrel. yes once you hit 26" it becomes a "firearm" or "other weapon" and with it being over 26" you can use a verticle fore grip without it needing registered as AOW

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Horsham, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: AR Pistol vs SBR

    this primary arms link was the EXACT thing i have been trying to find

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