Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: PGC and Open Carry

    They are poorly worded laws at best.

    What definition of "firearm" does the PGC use for their laws? During archery season, it would seem "firearm" means the carrying of a handgun (personal protection), but 141.43 would seem to mean a muzzleloader?????

  2. #22
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    West of the mountains, south of the lake, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
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    Default Re: PGC and Open Carry

    No argument here, but you work with what you have. The individual officer has a lot of discretion, as does the local magistrate.

  3. #23
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    South-Central, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: PGC and Open Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    They are poorly worded laws at best.

    What definition of "firearm" does the PGC use for their laws?
    The Title 34 definition of a "firearm" includes, handguns, long guns, muzzleloaders, etc. See definition:

    Title 34, Sec. 102. Definitions.

    "Firearm." An instrument used in the propulsion of shot, shell, bullet or any other object by the action of gunpowder exploded, explosive powder, the expansion of gas or the force of a mechanical device under tension.

    1. "Automatic." Any firearm which discharges more than once with a single pull of the trigger.
    2. "Semiautomatic." Any firearm which reloads without aid of the shooter, but fires only once with a single pull of the trigger.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    During archery season, it would seem "firearm" means the carrying of a handgun (personal protection), but 141.43 would seem to mean a muzzleloader?????

    I'm not sure how you are interpreting a firearm to mean a handgun in 141.43. Remember the Title 34 definition of a firearm differs from the Title 18 definition. Also, a muzzleloading firearm is mentioned only as an exception situation in 141.43(a)(1). See below:

    Title 58, Sec. 141.43. Deer.

    (a) Archery season. It is unlawful while hunting deer with a bow and arrow or crossbow during the archery season to:

    (1) Possess a firearm, except during the overlaps of the early archery and muzzleloader seasons and the late archery and flintlock muzzleloading seasons, when a person may use and possess both a bow and arrow or crossbow and a muzzleloading firearm only if that person is in possession of both a valid archery license and a valid muzzleloader license and meets the greater protective material requirements for the muzzleloader season, if applicable.

  4. #24
    Join Date
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    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: PGC and Open Carry

    2525 says a person can carry a "firearm" for self-protection provided they have a LTC or are a LEO. The LTC only governs firearms (handguns, or those weapons that fall under the definition) so this section means a handgun. They use the definition of firearm listed in Title 18.

    In 141.43 they use their definition of a firearm to mean everything; rifle, shotgun, muzzleloader or........handgun. None of which can be carried.

    But according to 2525.......I can carry a firearm (handgun) while archery hunting for self-protection.

    They are using two different definitions of firearms with two intertwined laws (2525 and 141.43). I realize they are trying to say during archery season you can only use the "firearm" for self-protection........but they have really, really done a poor job writing their laws.

    A further example is 2503 which only includes "on-duty" police officers as an exception to having a loaded firearm in a vehicle. As an off-duty LEO I can have a loaded firearm (handgun) in my vehicle, but not according to 2503.

    So in the same vein as what happened to the person carrying in Pittsburgh (person cited for an ordinance in direct violation with PA law), a WCO can write me a citation for carrying a loaded firearm in my vehicle because I am off-duty and don't meet the standards set in 2503.

    Plus 2503 says "any" firearm, meaning handgun, rifle or shotgun.....however under 6106.1 a police officer can carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle. Doesn't matter whether he is on or off-duty or driving his own vehicle. The law makes no distinction between on or off-duty or duty/personal vehicles. But again, same thing as I mentioned above can happen.

    The PGC has made laws in direct violation of the UFA.

  5. #25
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    South-Central, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: PGC and Open Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    ...
    So in the same vein as what happened to the person carrying in Pittsburgh (person cited for an ordinance in direct violation with PA law), a WCO can write me a citation for carrying a loaded firearm in my vehicle because I am off-duty and don't meet the standards set in 2503. ...
    I really wouldn't worry about a WCO citing you, or any LEO, for a loaded duty firearm under 2503. Title 34 was recodified in 1987, and like any code or statute, there is room for improvement.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: PGC and Open Carry

    I'm not worried about it but whoever they paid to draft the law needs to refund the money.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    SE PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: PGC and Open Carry

    I Think (Maybe an oxymoron in my case) that the self defense reference is to (1) 2 legged creatures (mostly), and (2) 4 legged creatures not in season that have decided to have a part of your anatomy for lunch. Depends on what you use and the circumstances under which you use it. If in season and legal - OK ( NO Semi auto pistols). If not in season, and a shot of opportunity, wrong gun, tree stand, no chance to injure you, you are in violation. Tree stand, 20 feet up, coyote out of season, wrong gun (semiauto no defense - Citation. My heads hurting again, and I admit I'm no expert on this. example, if I'm a game officer, and you have taken a coyote while in a tree stand, out of season, youn will be cited. NO self defense plea works in this case. All others, local decision, local situation.

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