Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Non Resident Permit Question

    First off, I have recently moved here to Monroe County after retiring from the Marine Corps after 20 yrs of service. I hope to learn more about the rules and laws regarding firearms since I have been out of the loop for a few years. While stationed in North Carolina, I had a Resident PA LTCF, but it expired in Jan and I never had the chance to renew. I went ahead and got a Virginia Non-resident permit so I could conceal carry in NC. Being back in PA and having the Virginia non-res permit and being a PA resident again, can I open carry in a vehicle with that permit? I understand PA does not reciprocate with Virginia regarding non-res permits, just wondering about if the permit is ok for vehicle carry only. I am confused on the laws regarding that PA allows the permits of all states to carry in vehicles only, but it is silent if that includes non-re permits as well. I am still in the process of getting references that are Monroe County residents so I can get my LTCF. Thanks for any information and hope to learn and also help out on here as much as I can.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    King of Prussia, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Non Resident Permit Question

    Thanks for your service.

    Welcome to PAFOA. I wil try to make this as least complicated as I can.

    As far as carry is concerned, PA allows unlicensed Open Carry any place that is not prohibited. However unless you have an LTCF or a permit from another state that PA recognizes and has reciprocity with, you may not conceal or open carry in a vehicle. Open carry in a vehicle is restricted based on transportation i.e you can't stick the gun in the trunk locked and then go to your destination and then proceed to put on your firearm.

    Since your current permit does not share reciprocity the ONLY way you may carry is Open Carry and you may not enter a vehicle, transport, or carry concealed or in Philly with that firearm. Aside from Philadelphia County i.e the City of Philadelphia, prohibited places would be:

    1. Court Facilities

    2a.*Grounds and buildings of Elementary and Secondary schools(K-12 grades), whether the school is private or public. There is an affirmative defense for "other lawful purposes" however there is no case law determining on what that includes. To be safe, its wiser to assume it does not include our carrying "rights".
    2b. Within 1000ft of a school unless you have a license/permit issued by the state in which the school is located(PA LTCF)

    3. Casinos

    4. Certain Department of State buildings - by regulation

    5. Places off-limits by Federal Law or regulation, IE: military installations(exceptions for hunting at some bases), Federal Government buildings, after the security check point in airports,etc.

    6. Any private property where a landowner, tenant or person so authorized to maintain property has asked you to leave because you are carrying, or where the property owner or tenant has placed signs or placards denoting that guns are forbidden

    7. Detention facilities, correctional institutes, or mental hospitals.

    Regarding number 6. Concealed means concealed and a sign that reads "no guns" holds no legal weight in PA. If however your are found out to be carrying a firearm you may be charged with trespassing if you are asked to leave and refuse to do so.

    Most of this info is thanks to this thread I would go there if you want a more detailed read on laws regarding carry(I WOULD)

    Those are pretty much the basics. Welcome to PA hope you enjoy your stay.
    Last edited by coppery; September 27th, 2014 at 01:04 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Albrightsville, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: Non Resident Permit Question

    Shorter answer - no... Carrying in a vehicle is always considered concealed carry.

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC6114 View Post
    ... can I open carry in a vehicle with that permit?
    Memberships: NRA Lifetime, GOA Lifetime, JPFO,

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Holland, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Non Resident Permit Question

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC6114 View Post
    First off, I have recently moved here to Monroe County after retiring from the Marine Corps after 20 yrs of service. I hope to learn more about the rules and laws regarding firearms since I have been out of the loop for a few years. While stationed in North Carolina, I had a Resident PA LTCF, but it expired in Jan and I never had the chance to renew. I went ahead and got a Virginia Non-resident permit so I could conceal carry in NC. Being back in PA and having the Virginia non-res permit and being a PA resident again, can I open carry in a vehicle with that permit? I understand PA does not reciprocate with Virginia regarding non-res permits, just wondering about if the permit is ok for vehicle carry only. I am confused on the laws regarding that PA allows the permits of all states to carry in vehicles only, but it is silent if that includes non-re permits as well. I am still in the process of getting references that are Monroe County residents so I can get my LTCF. Thanks for any information and hope to learn and also help out on here as much as I can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loolaw View Post
    Shorter answer - no... Carrying in a vehicle is always considered concealed carry.
    I'm also confused. I thought that as long as you had a valid license from any state, you are permitted to carry in a vehicle.

    Bill



    18 Pa.C.S. 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license

    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
    (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

    (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    King of Prussia, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Non Resident Permit Question

    Quote Originally Posted by wew3 View Post
    I'm also confused. I thought that as long as you had a valid license from any state, you are permitted to carry in a vehicle.

    Bill



    18 Pa.C.S. 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license

    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
    (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

    (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.
    If you posses a valid license from a state that PA has reciprocity with then yes, if not then you may not carry concealed, or open carry in a city of the first class, or transport in/on a vehicle.

    Carrying in a vehicle is not considered concealing, it's considered transport. That is the reason why you can't open carry on a train or a bike etc. if you don't have an LTCF or a permit from a reciprocity state.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Non Resident Permit Question

    I believe he can carry in a vehicle with a permit from any state. Reciprocity is not required under exception 11.
    Right of citizens to bear arms ...shall not be questioned.

  7. #7
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Non Resident Permit Question

    Quote Originally Posted by clarencecoffee View Post
    I believe he can carry in a vehicle with a permit from any state. Reciprocity is not required under exception 11.
    I know the statute says that, but a judge has ruled that "any person" doesn't include a PA resident (I know)

    http://www.pagunblog.com/2013/10/23/...ond-amendment/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    King of Prussia, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Non Resident Permit Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Philbert View Post
    I know the statute says that, but a judge has ruled that "any person" doesn't include a PA resident (I know)

    http://www.pagunblog.com/2013/10/23/...ond-amendment/
    I guess that judge is in bed with AG Kane.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Non Resident Permit Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Philbert View Post
    I know the statute says that, but a judge has ruled that "any person" doesn't include a PA resident (I know)

    http://www.pagunblog.com/2013/10/23/...ond-amendment/
    Well then if he is resident in PA, why not get an LTCF for PA?
    Right of citizens to bear arms ...shall not be questioned.

  10. #10
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Non Resident Permit Question

    Quote Originally Posted by clarencecoffee View Post
    Well then if he is resident in PA, why not get an LTCF for PA?
    The OP? He plans to do so, but doesn't currently have references.

    But yes, he should do get a PA LTCF. In fact everyone who lives here and handles firearms or who has a close relative who might call on them to do so should get an LTCF.

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