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Thread: LTCF renewal

  1. #1
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    Question LTCF renewal

    Hey all,

    I know it's legal for me to carry with my LTCF in PA even though I've been living in the Peoples Socialist Republic of Komiefornia for a little over a year now since the LTCF is valid until it expires.

    My question pertains to renewal. Me and my girlfriend when we get married plan to move to PA. Until that day we will be visiting PA here and there. Can I renew my LTCF before its expiration at the courthouse in MontCo even though I'm not a PA resident anymore?

    Side note. What would a PA Officer say if they ask for DL and LTCF seeing that I have a CA DL but a valid PA LTCF instead of JUST asking for an LTCF.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: LTCF renewal

    If you are not resident in PA then you are not eligible for an LTCF and it would be revoked once the sheriff learned of your new residence.

    The Sheriff will not renew your LTCF if you are not a PA resident. You could apply for a non-resident LTCF, but that will only be issued if you have a license from your state of residence. Depending on which county of CA you reside in, this might be easy or impossible.

    http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...6109/licenses/

    see 6109(e)(1)(ix) and 6109(i)
    Last edited by Philbert; September 25th, 2014 at 06:28 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: LTCF renewal

    Interesting. The answer makes sense, however I was told, and under the impression that my LTCF is valid in PA until expiration regardless of location.

    To add, I think it's kind of odd to not renew an LTCF as a non-res considering I am already in possession of an LTCF

  4. #4
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    Default Re: LTCF renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by coppery View Post
    Interesting. The answer makes sense, however I was told, and under the impression that my LTCF is valid in PA until expiration regardless of location.

    To add, I think it's kind of odd to not renew an LTCF as a non-res considering I am already in possession of an LTCF
    I agree it's odd, but the legislature in their infinite wisdom made being a resident of PA, or a non-resident with a local license, a condition of licensure.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: LTCF renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by coppery View Post
    Interesting. The answer makes sense, however I was told, and under the impression that my LTCF is valid in PA until expiration regardless of location.

    To add, I think it's kind of odd to not renew an LTCF as a non-res considering I am already in possession of an LTCF
    Your LTCF is valid until expiration OR REVOCATION. Moving out of state does not automatically nullify your LTCF but, as Philbert correctly points out, a sheriff has a statutory duty to revoke an LTCF held by a non-resident who does not have a CCW of his home state.

    (f) Term of license.--

    (1) A license to carry a firearm issued under subsection (e) shall be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a period of five years unless extended under paragraph (3) or sooner revoked.
    (i) Revocation.--A license to carry firearms may be revoked by the issuing authority for good cause. A license to carry firearms shall be revoked by the issuing authority for any reason stated in subsection (e)(1) which occurs during the term of the permit.
    (e) Issuance of license.--

    (1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:
    (ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).
    ALl subsections above from 18 Pa CS 6109
    IANAL

  6. #6
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    Default Re: LTCF renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by tl_3237 View Post
    Your LTCF is valid until expiration OR REVOCATION. Moving out of state does not automatically nullify your LTCF but, as Philbert correctly points out, a sheriff has a statutory duty to revoke an LTCF held by a non-resident who does not have a CCW of his home state.





    That make sense. It applies with what Phil said. So as long as the Sheriff does not order me to relinquish the LTCF I'm green to go carry as I were when I lived in PA.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: LTCF renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by coppery View Post
    That make sense. It applies with what Phil said. So as long as the Sheriff does not order me to relinquish the LTCF I'm green to go carry as I were when I lived in PA.
    The only thing you have to concern yourself about is that since CA is a "may issue" state, so far as carry permits are concerned, and if you do not have one, then your PA LTCF would, de facto, no longer be valid. If the sheriff were to be made known of your change of residence to CA, he would be obligated to revoke your license, IF you do not obtain a CA permit in the meantime.

    You may, very well, be walking on thin ice if you get stopped in PA with a PA LTCF and a CA DL without a CA permit to carry.

    Also, I am not sure if Montco chooses to issue to non-residents, although they should, by statute. So, they may not renew even if you do have a CA permit.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: LTCF renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt_D View Post
    The only thing you have to concern yourself about is that since CA is a "may issue" state, so far as carry permits are concerned, and if you do not have one, then your PA LTCF would, de facto, no longer be valid. If the sheriff were to be made known of your change of residence to CA, he would be obligated to revoke your license, IF you do not obtain a CA permit in the meantime.

    You may, very well, be walking on thin ice if you get stopped in PA with a PA LTCF and a CA DL without a CA permit to carry.

    Also, I am not sure if Montco chooses to issue to non-residents, although they should, by statute. So, they may not renew even if you do have a CA permit.
    There is no statutory or affirmative duty for a licensee to report a move out of state. Such a move does not automatically invalid an otherwise validly issued license. There is a very specific notification process that must be followed by the sheriff to effect a revocation. Absent a formal revocation the license of the OP would remain valid until expiration.
    IANAL

  9. #9
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    Default Re: LTCF renewal

    Quote Originally Posted by tl_3237 View Post
    There is no statutory or affirmative duty for a licensee to report a move out of state. Such a move does not automatically invalid an otherwise validly issued license. There is a very specific notification process that must be followed by the sheriff to effect a revocation. Absent a formal revocation the license of the OP would remain valid until expiration.
    My point was that if the OP were to get stopped while carrying in PA, and produced his PA LTCF and CA DL, he MIGHT be run up the flagpole if the LEO asked to see his CA permit as well and did some checking. Whether the LEO would go that far is up for grabs.

    Within Phila., they just might.

    Without a CA permit, I doubt that he could renew, based on your comment earlier:

    Your LTCF is valid until expiration OR REVOCATION. Moving out of state does not automatically nullify your LTCF but, as Philbert correctly points out, a sheriff has a statutory duty to revoke an LTCF held by a non-resident who does not have a CCW of his home state.
    Last edited by Kurt_D; September 26th, 2014 at 02:56 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: LTCF renewal

    So what is the final word on this. If I'm wrong correct me but I understand that:

    I can carry until my LTCF expires as I did when I use to live in PA with JUST the LTCF unless it is sooner revoked. Also since I do no have a CA CCW I can't simply renew my LTCF (MontCO) unless I somehow won the lottery and acquired a residence in PA.

    Yes? No? Maybe?

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