Prohibited friend (misdemeanors) wants to get into shooting with black powder

[Totez]

So a friend of mine from Highschool made some bad choices in life with weed and is now a prohibited person via two misdemeanor charges. He knows he can not own or use modern guns but wants to get into hunting and shooting with black powder.

Can he do this? He also thinks he can carry black powder guns openly which I'm pretty sure he can not as PA makes no distinction for the purposes of carry between antique ignition and modern.

Am I right? I really don't want my friend to get into any more trouble.

[PennStateCarry]

I'm pretty sure SigForLife is talking to the PSP about that one currently. I don't think there is a cut and dried answer for that yet, so until then I would air on the side of caution and say no.

[QuackXP]

So a friend of mine from Highschool made some bad choices in life with weed and is now a prohibited person via two misdemeanor charges. He knows he can not own or use modern guns but wants to get into hunting and shooting with black powder.

Can he do this? He also thinks he can carry black powder guns openly which I'm pretty sure he can not as PA makes no distinction for the purposes of carry between antique ignition and modern.

Am I right? I really don't want my friend to get into any more trouble.

I don't know the legal distinction between black-powder and modern firearms.

But assuming they are the same OC of a firearm without a LTCF is problematic because unless the carrier walks everywhere. As soon as the carrier gets into or on any form of transportation, laws regarding such transportation go into effect and are very restrictive where you can go without a LTCF.

Also the firearm in question would have to be unloaded for transportation, and this would be difficult with a black powder firearm.

Now maybe black-powder firearms do not fall under the restrictions of "firearms not to be carried without a licence". But I have no idea weather this could be true or not.

You also run into the fact of what is legal and what a LEO thinks is legal. Even if you can carry black-powder as a prohibited person, good luck not getting arrested and having to prove your case in court.

No mention of ignition system as far as definition of a firearm for Title 18 Chapter 61.

"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...&div=0&chpt=61

Unless black-powder is exempt from Title 18 Chapter 61 I'm betting its a NO GO!

[knight0334]

Unfortunately for him - due to PA law, those who are prohibited from possessing modern firearms are also prohibited from possessing "antique firearms". ...there are only a few exceptions because of technicalities.

So, he is more than likely shit out of luck.

He isn't prohibited under federal law, but rather just PA law.

If he were in another state that doesn't have a 6105 type provision he would have been OK.

[nater99]

Even if it was legal through some technicality, do you really think your local PD would know about it? He'd have to be prepared to fight the legal fight.

[Totez]

Unfortunately for him - due to PA law, those who are prohibited from possessing modern firearms are also prohibited from possessing "antique firearms". ...there are only a few exceptions because of technicalities.

So, he is more than likely shit out of luck.

He isn't prohibited under federal law, but rather just PA law.

If he were in another state that doesn't have a 6105 type provision he would have been OK.

Man that is some bull crap. Oh well.. Thanks for the info I will be passing it along to him. He's going to be heartbroken....

[tl_3237]

I don't know the legal distinction between black-powder and modern firearms.

But assuming they are the same OC of a firearm without a LTCF is problematic because unless the carrier walks everywhere. As soon as the carrier gets into or on any form of transportation, laws regarding such transportation go into effect and are very restrictive where you can go without a LTCF.

Also the firearm in question would have to be unloaded for transportation, and this would be difficult with a black powder firearm.

Now maybe black-powder firearms do not fall under the restrictions of "firearms not to be carried without a licence". But I have no idea weather this could be true or not.

You also run into the fact of what is legal and what a LEO thinks is legal. Even if you can carry black-powder as a prohibited person, good luck not getting arrested and having to prove your case in court.

No mention of ignition system as far as definition of a firearm for Title 18 Chapter 61.



http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...&div=0&chpt=61

Unless black-powder is exempt from Title 18 Chapter 61 I'm betting its a NO GO!

BP is exempt from MOST of the UFA portion of Ch 61. The exceptions are sections 6106 (concealed carry) and 6105 (prohibited persons possession) [as knight0334 has pointed out]. Those two sections remain in full force for BP.

§ 6118. Antique firearms.

(a) General rule.--This subchapter shall not apply to
antique firearms.

(b) Exception.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to the extent
that such antique firearms, reproductions or replicas of
firearms are concealed weapons as provided in section 6106
(relating to firearms not be carried without a license), nor
shall it apply to the provisions of section 6105 (relating to
persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or
transfer firearms) if such antique firearms, reproductions or
replicas of firearms are suitable for use.

(c) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "antique
firearm" means:

(1) Any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock or
percussion cap type of ignition system.

(2) Any firearm manufactured on or before 1898.

(3) Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph

(2) if such replica:

(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire
or conventional center fire fixed ammunition; or

(ii) uses rimfire or conventional center fire fixed
ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United
States and which is not readily available in the ordinary
channels of commercial trade.

[QuackXP]

BP is exempt from MOST of the UFA portion of Ch 61. The exceptions are sections 6106 (concealed carry) and 6105 (prohibited persons possession) [as knight0334 has pointed out]. Those two sections remain in full force for BP.

So could you CC or transport a loaded black powder firearm anywhere without a LTCF?

[God's Country]

As pointed out in Pa he's screwed.

BTW he can still hunt with a bow or crossbow.
The two archery season are long and provide plenty of opportunity.

[GunLawyer001]

I'm pretty sure SigForLife is talking to the PSP about that one currently. I don't think there is a cut and dried answer for that yet, so until then I would air on the side of caution and say no.

Yes, there is a cut & dried answer, and the answer is that a person prohibited by Federal law but not by PA law can possess "antique" firearms, as defined. So far as the Feds are concerned, traditional muzzle-loaders are not firearms at all, which is why you can buy one from a catalog and get it shipped to you directly, which the 1968 GCA bars for all "firearms".

However, Pennsylvania law has its own list of prohibitors, and some of them overlap with the Feds. Pennsylvania law re-defines "firearm" just for purposes of prohibited persons, and expands it from (essentially) "just handguns" to "anything that spits out a projectile with a bang". Which would even include a potato cannon, as well as all muzzle-loaders.

Firearm.--As used in this section only, the term “firearm” shall include any weapons which are designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.