Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Somewhere else, Pennsylvania
    (Cambria County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by dilligaf View Post
    Just think of all the lies government tells and gets away with.
    Lying is really hard to prosecute in a free society. Don't worry, they/we are working on it.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Lawrence County, Pennsylvania
    (Lawrence County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Hello all,
    I like how they want to pass a law to prosecute felons trying to purchase firearms. They get prosecuted now if you try to purchase a firearm being a felon. What happens most of the time is they plead guilty and 9 out of 10 times they get offered ARD. They get ARD and have to pay the costs for ARD and then get put on probation and as always they pay a fine and they have to pay for the cost of prosecution. If they abide by everything theyre supposed to do set forth by the judge and complete ARD they then can petition the courts to have it all expunged. This is a big waste of time and taxpayers money. Legislation to amend the Uniform Firearms Act of 1995 to further provide for law enforcement’s ability to prosecute felons who attempt to purchase firearms through licensed firearms dealers in the Commonwealth. Law enforcement doesnt prosecute, it's the District Attorney's office who prosecutes cases. The court systems are so backed up with cases, 9 out of 10 times like I said before, they plead out of court to ARD or something else where all they do is pay a fine and costs. Basically all that means is that they do no jail time. All law enforcement does is arrest the person who commits such crime. If a felon wants to gain access to a firearm, they sure as hell arent going to go see an FFL to purchase a firearm. This in conclusion is just another form of gun control. Criminals dont care about laws. They do what they want just like the politicians do, they also do what they want.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sterling, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    I ordered a Remington sps 7mm08 at the Split Rock gun show, I got the call that the rifle was in and went to pick it up. I filled out the 4473 and the shop makes the call to Pics, and we wait and wait, finally a reply, I've been put in research. Now I've been buying since I moved up here 6 years ago, I have a LTCF in my back pocket, so the only thing I can figure is Wolfie, Kane and Brown are up to their BS. Maybe they've been reading my posts here about them, I guess I'll have to wait out the delay.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Robinson Twp., Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Ok, so I had no idea about PICS/NICS the first (and only) time I attempted to buy a firearm. I was denied because of a 302 when I was a teen. So to get this right... I should never ever try to purchase again, until I've properly addressed the 302 and had it expunged and the denial appealed properly, correct? Otherwise, I run the risk of criminal prosecution for just attempting to buy, right? I just want to be overtly, blatantly, completely, and flamboyantly obvious with my question and answer...

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by jobo5432 View Post
    Ok, so I had no idea about PICS/NICS the first (and only) time I attempted to buy a firearm. I was denied because of a 302 when I was a teen. So to get this right... I should never ever try to purchase again, until I've properly addressed the 302 and had it expunged and the denial appealed properly, correct? Otherwise, I run the risk of criminal prosecution for just attempting to buy, right? I just want to be overtly, blatantly, completely, and flamboyantly obvious with my question and answer...
    Yes, do not attempt to buy until your lawyer that you are paying money to advises you that you should do so.

    Secondarily, unless you can attack the 302 as improperly done, you can't restore your rights until the legislature comes up with a fix for a recent court decision that made the rights loss of a 302 permanent with no way to recover.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Robinson Twp., Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Well, as the genesis of this thread, I'm honored it's garnered so much attention. I would second the notion that it be pinned so others can see the discussions herein. They are important. As many of you know buying a firearm legally always leads to you crossing your fingers when the PICS call is placed, which is a terrible thing to have to hope that your inalienable and infrangible rights haven't been stripped away by a computer and/or human on the other end of the phone. Not just because your rights are supposed to be infrangible, but because you know how difficult it is to have your rights restored as I am finding out.

    I have been battling with this over four years on and off. This morning I spoke to the deputy director of the county department of human services. He dug into my case personally to find the hospitalization records (discharge summary, physician notes, etc... ) for the 302 which cost me my rights. He found nothing. The hospital has been razed and the records permanently purged. This is to say that the only record of the hospitalization is now in the hands of the state as they maintain their own mental health database. I don't know what is in it, but my quest to find out began this afternoon. I will now have to cough up all the money to lawyer up and fight this in court. I'll see you all in 2+ years and upwards of $10K later...

    Please do sticky this post. I wouldn't want this to happen to anyone or worse... I will check back periodically and update y'all as it happens. God and peace be with you all. Happy Holidays.

    Sincerely,
    The Oppressed American

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Nondescript building with no windows
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    ".....always leads to you crossing your fingers when the PICS call is placed".
    Uh...sorry..but no. I worry more about the WIFE check when I'm heading home with the gun.

    I can only imagine the stress you go through while standing at the counter. Best of luck.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bucks, Pennsylvania
    Posts
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by jobo5432 View Post
    Well, as the genesis of this thread, I'm honored it's garnered so much attention. I would second the notion that it be pinned so others can see the discussions herein. They are important. As many of you know buying a firearm legally always leads to you crossing your fingers when the PICS call is placed, which is a terrible thing to have to hope that your inalienable and infrangible rights haven't been stripped away by a computer and/or human on the other end of the phone. Not just because your rights are supposed to be infrangible, but because you know how difficult it is to have your rights restored as I am finding out.

    I have been battling with this over four years on and off. This morning I spoke to the deputy director of the county department of human services. He dug into my case personally to find the hospitalization records (discharge summary, physician notes, etc... ) for the 302 which cost me my rights. He found nothing. The hospital has been razed and the records permanently purged. This is to say that the only record of the hospitalization is now in the hands of the state as they maintain their own mental health database. I don't know what is in it, but my quest to find out began this afternoon. I will now have to cough up all the money to lawyer up and fight this in court. I'll see you all in 2+ years and upwards of $10K later...

    Please do sticky this post. I wouldn't want this to happen to anyone or worse... I will check back periodically and update y'all as it happens. God and peace be with you all. Happy Holidays.

    Sincerely,
    The Oppressed American
    I'm pretty sure that I started this thread, and that it was made into a sticky quite some time ago. Best of luck in your efforts to get past the 302, I hope that you achieve something more than just spending money, although that's the most common outcome since attorney Prince lost the Keyes case.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Free seminar 7/18/19 in Quakertown: https://www.senatormensch.com/concealed-carry-seminar/

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Zelienople, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Three men were just arrested by Cranberry Township police after failing background checks at Field & Stream. Two of them, a 42-yr old from Zelienople and a 43-yr old from Cranberry, both had prior involuntary commitments to mental institutions, and a 30-yr old from Freeport had been convicted of a misdemeanor with a possible sentence of more than one year. All three are charged with illegal sale or transfer of a firearm and falsification to authorities. I'd post a link, but the online Butler Eagle requires a subscription.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    City in, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Scroll down toward the bottom at this link to see the story.

    Men allegedly try to buy guns illegally
    By Paula Grubbs
    Eagle Staff Writer

    CRANBERRY TWP — Three men in separate incidents are accused of attempting to buy firearms illegally at the Field and Stream store on Route 19.
    All three are charged by township police with the illegal sale or transfer of a firearm and falsification to authorities.
    Joseph L. Wilson, 42, of Zelienople was charged Thursday for a Dec. 2 incident in which police allege he neglected to admit a prior commitment to a mental institution on an application to buy a firearm. Such a commitment would preclude him from buying a firearm.

    Police say Douglas Witas, 43, of Cranberry Township March 14 tried to buy a .357 revolver at the Field and Stream. Witas also failed to admit to an involuntary commitment to a mental institution in 2005, police say.
    Witas told police he did not know he had been involuntarily committed in 2005. He was charged on Wednesday.

    Matthew Klesen, 30, of Freeport allegedly falsified his application on March 29 when he tried to buy a 9 mm pistol at the Field and Stream.
    Police say Klesen was denied the purchase when the background check revealed he was previously convicted of a misdemeanor that he has a possible penalty of imprisonment for more than a year, which prohibited him from buying a firearm.
    Klesen allegedly denied knowing that misdemeanor prohibited him from buying a firearm. He also was charged on Wednesday.

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