Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Clinton, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by internet troll View Post
    I motion this be made a sticky so that it can quickly be referenced in the future. This can help a lot of people.
    ^^^^^ In red above.

    I agree calls for a sticky.
    Μολὼν λαβέ
    Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Harrisburg area, Pennsylvania
    (Dauphin County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    It's already a sticky under
    Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum > Law & Politics > Pennsylvania

    Possibly it should be a stickied elsewhere on the board as well.
    I am not a lawyer. Nothing I say or write is legal advice.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Clinton, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by twency View Post
    It's already a sticky under
    Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum > Law & Politics > Pennsylvania

    Possibly it should be a stickied elsewhere on the board as well.
    Me.
    Μολὼν λαβέ
    Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

  4. #14
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    Mar 2007
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    City in, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    If a person was arrested for DUI, completed ARD and probation and had their record expunged, how long should that person wait to apply for a LTCF or to buy a gun to be sure the DUI does not show up in the PICS check?

    Not me, BTW, I've had my LTCF for years and have purchased many guns

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Bucks, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    It may be helpful to post links here to posts where someone describes being prosecuted for their PICS denial. For example, this one:

    http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-...on-rights.html
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Lawrence County, Pennsylvania
    (Lawrence County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Back in August 1999, I was 30 years old and I tried to take my own life by taking a bottle of prescription pills. I took like 15 pills and my mother walked in on me and caught me taking the last pill in the bottle. She rushed me straight to the emergency room and I had my stomach pumped. I woke up in the mental ward at the hospital with my arms strapped to the side of the bed. I asked a male nurse who walked past my room what I was doing there and he just said its standard procedure. I stayed in the hospital mental ward for a week or 120 hours. A nurse came up to me and said youre getting released. After about an hour I was finally home. This subject was never mentioned again at my house or anywhere for that matter as I had brought shame on my family. November 2012 on election nite somebody tried to kick the back door of my house in and rob me. I was upstairs sleeping. For about 2 months after that, I was afraid to sleep at nite fearing that somebody was going to try to rob me again. From August 1999 to November 2012 I have never had an interest in owning a gun, shooting a gun or even holding a gun. After thinking about it for sometime, In July 2013, I decided that I was going to buy a gun. I wanted to buy a 357. I was even going to take a safety course on guns. I go to a local gun dealer and filled out all the paperwork for PICS, NICS, and the ATF. The dealer calls PICS and after about 10 minutes of waiting he says that they denied me. He gives me a challenge form to fill out and send in to PSP. I did that and about a month and a half later, I get a final denial letter from PSP stating why I was denied. It was because of an involuntary commitment from back in August 1999. I started researching what an involuntary commitment was. I found out that a 302 is what they called an involuntary commitment. I have never heard of a 302 before in my life. I also found out that I can never own a handgun in the Commonwealth of Pa for the rest of my life. I figured that was it. Almost 6 months later in January 2014, I get a phone call from a Trooper from PSP. I didnt answer the phone and he left a voicemail. I thought it was a prank call from somebody playing jokes or something. The next day I got onto the Pa Court Dockets link and looked my name up. I had 2 charges against me. 1 was a Felony 3, Materially false written statement - purchase, delivery, transfer of a firearm. and the other charges was a Misdemeanor 3, False written statement. Right then and there I called the best criminal defense attorney in the city I reside in. I stated what I had looked up online and that a Trooper from PSP called me and left me a voicemail. He called the District Magistrate where the charges were filed out of and explained what was going on. The District Magistrate told him to tell me to turn myself in and I would be released on ROR. I called the Trooper back and he basically stated that I was being charged for marking "NO" on the PICS form saying I never was involuntary commited before. He also said that if I plead guilty to the Misdemeanor 3 that I would probably be giving ARD. I thought why should I plead guilty to something that I didnt do. I didnt know I was prohibited from buying a gun. I didnt know I was a 302 statistic. Nobody ever told me that I was prohibited from owning a gun. Not the doctor, not PSP, not the hospital, none of the nurses or anybody for that matter. I was never given any documentation on such matter of prohibition of a firearm. I hire this attorney which Im not going to even tell you how much money it cost me. When it comes to attorneys you get what you pay for. My preliminary hearing was continued until March of 2014. I had to go into work where I am employed as a Corporate Security Officer for a Forune 500 company for 10 years and tell HR what had happened. I had the embarrassment of my name getting put in the newspaper. I had to go to the local PSP barracks and get fingerprinted like a criminal. I didnt sleep or eat for almost 2 months. I lost 20LBS because of all of this. My attorney got a copy of my 302 records from the county MH/MR office. He showed them to me at his office and nowhere does it state on there that I was prohibited from owning a gun. My attorney also told me that it was marked outpatient on my 302 records. My preliminary hearing was in March 2014 and my attorney walks in and says these charges are inadequate and he was going back to talk to the Trooper and the judge. He came out 10 minutes and said the charges were withdrawn. I looked up at the ceiling and outloud "Thank You God." He said I was free to go. All the expense of hiring the best attorney in the city I reside in and the fear of losing my job and the embarrassment of my name in the newspaper and all for what? I didnt know I was a 302 case and I didnt know I was prohibited from owning a gun. My attorney stated to me that if I wanted to get this all cleared up that I would have to hire an attorney who specializes in nothing but civil rights and firearm restoration. What Gunlawyer001 (Phil Kline) says is totally true. Do yourself a favor and if you were ever in a mental ward in a hospital, if you have any crime that my prohibit you from owning a gun, If anything doesnt seem right, hire an attorney to go over things for you. I am putting my story out here because I dont want anybody else to go through what I had to go through. I have had the same job for over 10 years now. I havent been in trouble with law enforcement for anything but a couple of speeding tickets. I own my own home. I pay my taxes and do everything right that Im supposed to do as a law abiding citizen. My 2nd amendment rights were stripped from me without due process. I hope this can help out so nobody else out there has to go through what I did. DO NOT depend on politicians passing laws or anything else for that matter to help people possibly restore their firearm rights. They have proven time after time that they are not going to do anything about this. Something should be done to notify people if they ever become a 302 case, that they are not allowed to purchase a firearm.

    Thank You

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    13240600

    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Thank you for sharing. I hope you don't mind, but I reformatted your post when quoting it for easier reading.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skreamz View Post
    Back in August 1999, I was 30 years old and I tried to take my own life by taking a bottle of prescription pills. I took like 15 pills and my mother walked in on me and caught me taking the last pill in the bottle.

    She rushed me straight to the emergency room and I had my stomach pumped. I woke up in the mental ward at the hospital with my arms strapped to the side of the bed. I asked a male nurse who walked past my room what I was doing there and he just said its standard procedure. I stayed in the hospital mental ward for a week or 120 hours. A nurse came up to me and said youre getting released. After about an hour I was finally home. This subject was never mentioned again at my house or anywhere for that matter as I had brought shame on my family.

    November 2012 on election nite somebody tried to kick the back door of my house in and rob me. I was upstairs sleeping. For about 2 months after that, I was afraid to sleep at nite fearing that somebody was going to try to rob me again. From August 1999 to November 2012 I have never had an interest in owning a gun, shooting a gun or even holding a gun. After thinking about it for sometime,

    In July 2013, I decided that I was going to buy a gun. I wanted to buy a 357. I was even going to take a safety course on guns. I go to a local gun dealer and filled out all the paperwork for PICS, NICS, and the ATF. The dealer calls PICS and after about 10 minutes of waiting he says that they denied me. He gives me a challenge form to fill out and send in to PSP. I did that and about a month and a half later, I get a final denial letter from PSP stating why I was denied. It was because of an involuntary commitment from back in August 1999.

    I started researching what an involuntary commitment was. I found out that a 302 is what they called an involuntary commitment. I have never heard of a 302 before in my life. I also found out that I can never own a handgun in the Commonwealth of Pa for the rest of my life. I figured that was it.

    Almost 6 months later in January 2014, I get a phone call from a Trooper from PSP. I didnt answer the phone and he left a voicemail. I thought it was a prank call from somebody playing jokes or something. The next day I got onto the Pa Court Dockets link and looked my name up. I had 2 charges against me. 1 was a Felony 3, Materially false written statement - purchase, delivery, transfer of a firearm. and the other charges was a Misdemeanor 3, False written statement.

    Right then and there I called the best criminal defense attorney in the city I reside in. I stated what I had looked up online and that a Trooper from PSP called me and left me a voicemail. He called the District Magistrate where the charges were filed out of and explained what was going on. The District Magistrate told him to tell me to turn myself in and I would be released on ROR.

    I called the Trooper back and he basically stated that I was being charged for marking "NO" on the PICS form saying I never was involuntary commited before. He also said that if I plead guilty to the Misdemeanor 3 that I would probably be giving ARD. I thought why should I plead guilty to something that I didnt do. I didnt know I was prohibited from buying a gun. I didnt know I was a 302 statistic. Nobody ever told me that I was prohibited from owning a gun. Not the doctor, not PSP, not the hospital, none of the nurses or anybody for that matter. I was never given any documentation on such matter of prohibition of a firearm.

    I hire this attorney which Im not going to even tell you how much money it cost me. When it comes to attorneys you get what you pay for. My preliminary hearing was continued until March of 2014. I had to go into work where I am employed as a Corporate Security Officer for a Forune 500 company for 10 years and tell HR what had happened. I had the embarrassment of my name getting put in the newspaper. I had to go to the local PSP barracks and get fingerprinted like a criminal. I didnt sleep or eat for almost 2 months. I lost 20LBS because of all of this.

    My attorney got a copy of my 302 records from the county MH/MR office. He showed them to me at his office and nowhere does it state on there that I was prohibited from owning a gun. My attorney also told me that it was marked outpatient on my 302 records.

    My preliminary hearing was in March 2014 and my attorney walks in and says these charges are inadequate and he was going back to talk to the Trooper and the judge. He came out 10 minutes and said the charges were withdrawn. I looked up at the ceiling and outloud "Thank You God." He said I was free to go.

    All the expense of hiring the best attorney in the city I reside in and the fear of losing my job and the embarrassment of my name in the newspaper and all for what? I didnt know I was a 302 case and I didnt know I was prohibited from owning a gun. My attorney stated to me that if I wanted to get this all cleared up that I would have to hire an attorney who specializes in nothing but civil rights and firearm restoration.

    What Gunlawyer001 (Phil Kline) says is totally true. Do yourself a favor and if you were ever in a mental ward in a hospital, if you have any crime that my prohibit you from owning a gun, If anything doesnt seem right, hire an attorney to go over things for you.

    I am putting my story out here because I dont want anybody else to go through what I had to go through. I have had the same job for over 10 years now. I havent been in trouble with law enforcement for anything but a couple of speeding tickets. I own my own home. I pay my taxes and do everything right that Im supposed to do as a law abiding citizen. My 2nd amendment rights were stripped from me without due process.

    I hope this can help out so nobody else out there has to go through what I did. DO NOT depend on politicians passing laws or anything else for that matter to help people possibly restore their firearm rights. They have proven time after time that they are not going to do anything about this. Something should be done to notify people if they ever become a 302 case, that they are not allowed to purchase a firearm.

    Thank You

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bucks, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    11,754
    Rep Power
    21474858

    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Bucks County, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
    17
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    0

    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    What is the difference between a "False statement" (Misdemeanor) and "Materially False Statement" (Felony)? Also, he only made one statement so how can face two charges?

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Broomall, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Critically important note about PICS and NICS

    Great post. This is good to know because people who want to buy a gun are always asking if I can just call PICS and see if they're good to go. I always tell them no, and now I have a better reason to. Plus, it always makes me suspicious that there could be a straw purchase in the future..
    Opera Non Verba

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