When does my carry firearm become a hunting firearm?

[redrockin7]

Ok, so theoretically one can hunt with the hunting firearm they are physically carrying (be it shotgun or crossbow/rifle) and a concealed carry firearm on their person for self protection. It is my understanding this is fine as "individuals holding License to Carry Firearms" are "Exempt" from certain regulations regarding carrying other firearms (Per the hunting manual thingamajig) so long as we don't use them as a hunting firearm. For example, I'm hunting grouse with a 20ga Beretta and have my XDM 3.8 on my hip, I can't shoot a sitting grouse with it. Or I can't shoot a deer with it in deer season, not even to put a finishing shot into one, I need to use my bow or 30-30. I also don't need to unload my 3.8 in the car, it is my personal protection, but I do need to unload my shotgun or rifle, obviously.

However, as with almost everything in that manual, it's not all that clear and concise on many things and there are many gray areas. I started thinking about this more when I recently traded for a Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter. I'm not quite sure what they mean by the "LCTF exempts you"... then it reads on to say, "keep in mind that most sporting firearms are not authorized by the permit".

When does the Blackhawk become strictly a hunting firearm, or does it ever? If I am carrying the 44 Mag to hunt deer or bear, I might consider not carrying a semi-auto handgun for self protection that day, as the 44 Mag would be fine in most cases where I hunt rurally for both hunting and self protection. (Likely I will carry a semi-auto anyway but for sake of discussion say I decide not to). Since it's primary purpose is hunting (? or is it ?) would I need to unload the Super Blackhawk in my vehicle, or does the LCTF exempt me from unloading it? Is it now my personal protection once I enter my car? Am I fine to leave it loaded as long as I don't break another game-law such as roadhunting? Does it matter if I scope the Ruger? Then of course its much more a hunting firearm than a concealed carry firearm. Even with a scope, does it ever not become a possible means of self-protection that I am permitted to carry with a LTCF? I mean hell, people are open carrying AR's and AK's with optics, so would a scope Ruger ever not be considered my protection, but rather solely a "sporting firearm".

Can someone maybe help clear this up for me so I don't run afoul this fall?

[redrockin7]

To cliffnote this - can a revolver such as the Ruger Super Blackhawk be carried to hunt large game, then carried as a self-defense weapon concealed or in my vehicle, without unloading it?

To play it safe I will probably just treat it as I do my deer rifle and unload it, while having another means of CC on my person.

[God's Country]

To cliffnote this - can a revolver such as the Ruger Super Blackhawk be carried to hunt large game, then carried as a self-defense weapon concealed or in my vehicle, without unloading it?

To play it safe I will probably just treat it as I do my deer rifle and unload it, while having another means of CC on my person.

LTCF = yes

[bogey1]

LTCF = yes

^^^THIS^^^

[redrockin7]

Thanks guys, I thought that was the case...

With that squared away, what do I need to legally tell a commission officer or DCNR officer if checked for loaded firearms during hunting season? Do I need to mention the "concealed carry firearm" that is now in my truck and no longer a "sporting firearm"? What if I have another concealed carry firearm in there - I do not mention that currently since its in no way related to the hunting.

I really enjoy my privilege of hunting so in most cases I would just inform him I am hunting with a Super Blackhawk and I also possess a LTCF so I have it loaded, concealed in the vehicle, but do I even legally need to mention this?

[DavidTM]

Ok, This is NOT a legal opinion....but it's my best understanding of the law and how this works:

#1--You can obtain a "Sportsman's Permit" in order to carry a permitted handgun that is legal to hunt in that season. (i.e.: A 44 Revolver or 357 Revolver in Deer season). However, a Sportsman's Permit is NOT the same as a CC permit and you cannot carry a loaded handgun in any vehicle, moving or not. The Sportsman's permit (I do not believe....but I could be wrong on this....but I have a CC because it's just easier) does not provide you with the ability to conceal the handgun you are using.

#2-- This is directly from Pa. Code, Chapter 141, Hunting and Trapping: (A) A person may possess certain firearms during the archery deer season under the authorizations of section 2525 of the act (relating to possession of firearm for protection of self or others). This language appears under every section of "type" of big game" that is permitted to hunt.

So, what this means is your probably not going to convince a game warden that your scoped Ruger Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk is your "Personal" defense carry weapon. Even if it is...your likely not going to win that argument. This is why the language of certain firearms was written into the law. Now, if you have a Ruger LCP, that's going to be fine and dandy. So, if you are approached by a WCO in bow season, and he see's this big bulge from your scoped 44 mag, he's likely going to ask what the hell do you have there. So, your scoped Ruger 44 Mag is NOT a legal personal protection handgun to carry during bow season. Or, your going to get written up and go to court. Probably lose and at minimum go to an appeal hearing. Am I ringing up enough attorney fees yet? I'm just saying.......

Does this help?

Dave

[redrockin7]

"under the authorizations of section 2525 of the act (relating to possession of firearm for protection of self or others)"

But *legally* I can carry a Super Blackhawk for protection under this section of the code, no? Does it change if I *don't* have it scoped? Now its a 44 Mag revolver with nothing to distinguish it between sporting and self-protection.

EDIT: Heck, to take this a step further. I often carry a .45ACP while bow hunting. 1911 or XDM. Is this illegal b/c it can kill a deer just dandy? I don't think it is technically/legally but you see where I am going with gray areas. Or what about the 44 Mag unscoped?

EDIT2: I'm not going to carry a scoped Blackhawk during archery - that wasn't the gist of my question - though it raises another gray area. I'm more concerned with whether I need to unload my Blackhawk at the car during deer or bear season (which I think I got the answer to).

[redrockin7]

I understand the sporting permit perfectly. I'm trying to understand the LTCF and hunting related caveats. Obviously there is some confusion b/c I got one response saying the scoped Blackhawk can't be used as my 'self protection' under LTCF and two saying, no questions asked, I can...

I think this is going to boil down to asking a CO to be safe, but I want to have my knowledge in-line first.

[theunrulychef]

Is it illegal to carry a concealed Ruger Blackhawk with a scope into Walmart because it's only purpose is sport? Of course not, have at it if that floats your boat.

If you go out for deer firearms season with a 308 & a revolver that meets the criteria for hunting, then my (limited) understanding is that you can use whichever you like. If you are out in bow season with a crossbow & an AR pistol tucked in your jacket (with LTCF of course), your friends might think you're paranoid, but you're not breaking any laws as far as I know.

[GrumpyBear]

If you have a LTCF you do not need the sportsmans's permit.

And you do not have to unload your Blackhawk.

IANAL or Gamewarden.

If this is incorrect and I do not believe that it is Knight will be along to correct me.

I have A Super RedHawk that I carry for hunting and have been checked with it loaded in the truck,by wardens with no issues.

And yes I have my LTCF.