Source for wound channel parameters?

[TotalNewbie]

I am trying to learn something about firearms (see my introduction), and I have a basic query which I cannot seem to find anywhere.

Before I can start understanding firearms, what firearms do, what are the pros and cons of each element of a firearm, I think that it would make sense to understand the desired result of its use. The way that I see it, a firearm is nothing more then a device that delivers a projectile (such as a bullet or multiple projectiles) to a target. If a target is an animal (be it game for the purposes of hunting, or a human for the purposes of personal defense or combat purpose), the reason for the delivery is to inflict sufficient amount of damage to the tissue of the target animal to kill it. Bigger the animal, greater the amount of trauma to the tissue that the projectile needs to inflict in order to kill the animal. The trauma is caused by the parameters of the wound channel. I would expect that a shooter should use the appropriate ammunition that will produce an appropriate wound channel that is sufficient to kill the animal, but using ammunition that will inflict needlessly large wound channel, would be wasteful (I assume that it is easier/cheaper, everything else being constant, to shoot a .22, then a .45).

My question are: is there a source (a magazine, a website, a book) that would correlate the minimal lethal wound channel parameter that are needed to kill a particular animal? Is there a source that would correlate ammunition characteristics (caliber, muzzle velocity, projectile weight, projectile shape, projectile tumbling during flight, etc.) with wound channel parameters that projectiles from such ammunition produce?

TIA

[luckyned7]

Wow..we would put all the gun writers, lores and legends..to bed.
There is no majic formula due to all the variables in the "shot". We have studies on game animals, wars, police shootings, and just plain history or track records of certain weights and styles of bullets travelling at certains speeds in certain rifles or pistols with certain twists hitting a given target but under what set of circumstances will it work twice?

A .22 rifle can kill squirrels. A 30-30 is a medium range deer rifle. A .45 stops people. Would a 44 magnum pistol work on all three equally well? Do we care how fast it will stop all three? Do we care what the bullet does to the target other than kill? Do we worry at what range it begins to fail? When does a large wound channel stop helping to effectively stop the target? Elephants? How bout a large wound channel that doesn't get to the vitals? Sooo much to discuss but I'll let others do a better job.

[Frenchy]

In general when you talk about stopping power, you’re talking what caliber
Will stop some one, or some animal, or in military cases, some vehicle with one bullet. It’s all relative to where you hit it. Give you a simple example. A .22 will stop a squirrel, rabbit, partridge if shot in the right place. Lead and brains do not mix well. It may not stop dead much more then that, but it can be mortal if shot well on much larger species, it will just take longer for the larger species to register the wound.

A .177 will stop a car within 10 miles of its hit, that’s right, but only if you hit the radiator. So common sense says any larger caliber will do the same. One would think faster, but its not the case, a car with no radiator will run about 10 miles. Doesn’t matter the size of the hole.

You could shoot a motor all day with pellets, try a few .22 and it will keep running, a .357 will go right through the block and stop the engine. 9mm and .45 would need to be shot at an engines weaker points to do much damage.

See each bullet has a purpose, in military terms, bullets are not meant to kill but to wound, and this is why the 9mm and .223 are so often used as it will penetrate just enough to wound but not necessarily kill. The military objective is to slow the enemy down by destroying the moral, nothing worst then sitting in a trench with your pal agonizing next to you.

Within this same 9mm range, (as in any caliber) there are many projectiles that will do different damage. Generally the military use a bullet that will make a nice straight pipe hole so the person suffers longer.

There are so many bullets that going through a description of what each one is meant for would be rather exhausting. Many times a caliber will be made by a company so that a specific rifle or gun can use it. Example, 38 Smith & Wesson compared to 38 special, and .357, smae basic projectile, different shell and capacity. Or the 45 long colt compared to 45 acp. (Auto Colt Pistol) and 45 gap. (Glock auto pistol) same caliber, different usages. Mainly because one will not fit or work in the other.

I’m sure there are books out there about different calibers and different projectiles. But the average mortal basically buys what is most common for his gun, and what he/she can afford.

[TotalNewbie]

There are so many bullets that going through a description of what each one is meant for would be rather exhausting. Many times a caliber will be made by a company so that a specific rifle or gun can use it. Example, 38 Smith & Wesson compared to 38 special, and .357, smae basic projectile, different shell and capacity. Or the 45 long colt compared to 45 acp. (Auto Colt Pistol) and 45 gap. (Glock auto pistol) same caliber, different usages. Mainly because one will not fit or work in the other.

I am pretty overwhelmed by the amount of different ammunition that is out there. By my count, there are about 155 different kinds of calibers for centerfire Rifle and 42 centerfire handgun ammunition listed in the “Shooter’s Bible” (98th ed, Stoeger Publishing Co.). Wow!

A query on vocabulary: my understanding (and your usage in the above post is consistent with my understanding) is that the word “caliber” refers to the nominal diameter of the bullet. Although I assume that you cannot use 38 Special cartridges and 38 S&W cartridges interchangeably (or 45 Long Colt / 45 ACP / 45 GAP), would this ammunition be considered the same caliber? If so, is there a term that differentiates the 38 Spl and 38 S&W cartridges? How would you complete this sentence: “38 Spl is the same caliber as 38 S&W but a different ___”?

Furthermore on vocabulary, I understand that there are many different kinds of bullets of the same caliber, used in the same firearm. Different ‘flavors’ of bullets in the same casings. For example, according to the Shooter’s Bible, Federal Ammunition makes .308 cartridges comprising bullets termed soft point, soft point round nose, soft point flat nose, and full metal jacket boat-tail. Is there a term for the same kind of cartridges comprising different kinds of bullets? How would you complete this sentence: “A .308 cartridge with soft point round nose bullet is a different ____ then a .308 cartridge with a soft point flat nose bullet.”?

Final query on caliber nomenclature: As with any other mechanical piece of equipment, the nominal dimension of caliber is quoted either in millimeters or inches (OK, 100ths or 1000th of an inch). This makes sense to me; once you construct a piece of equipment in one system, you stick with that system for rest of the product life of that equipment, because you simply cannot sue tools and parts that are based on the different system. But why is some ammunition (and rifles/carbines that accept such ammunition) titled in both systems? For example, it appears to me that the ammunition for an M-16 is termed as .223, or as 5.56 mm. The .223 and 5.56 is not simply interchangeable ammunition, or measurements converted from one system to the other, but it seems that the ammunition has two different titles. What gives? Are firearms that accept this ammunition designed and manufactured using tools and parts based on the metric system or on the imperial system?

Thanks!

--TotalNewbie

[Frenchy]

A query on vocabulary: my understanding (and your usage in the above post is consistent with my understanding) is that the word “caliber” refers to the nominal diameter of the bullet. Although I assume that you cannot use 38 Special cartridges and 38 S&W cartridges interchangeably (or 45 Long Colt / 45 ACP / 45 GAP), would this ammunition be considered the same caliber? If so, is there a term that differentiates the 38 Spl and 38 S&W cartridges? How would you complete this sentence: “38 Spl is the same caliber as 38 S&W but a different ___”? visually they are very different, they are labeled differently also ie: 38 smith vs 38 spl, .45 colt .45acp and 45 gap

Furthermore on vocabulary, I understand that there are many different kinds of bullets of the same caliber, used in the same firearm. Different ‘flavors’ of bullets in the same casings. For example, according to the Shooter’s Bible, Federal Ammunition makes .308 cartridges comprising bullets termed soft point, soft point round nose, soft point flat nose, and full metal jacket boat-tail. Is there a term for the same kind of cartridges comprising different kinds of bullets? How would you complete this sentence: “A .308 cartridge with soft point round nose bullet is a different Projectile then a .308 cartridge with a soft point flat nose bullet.”?

Final query on caliber nomenclature: As with any other mechanical piece of equipment, the nominal dimension of caliber is quoted either in millimeters or inches ... it appears to me that the ammunition for an M-16 is termed as .223, or as 5.56 mm. The .223 and 5.56 is not simply interchangeable ammunition, it is interchangable, one is American civilian the other is European metric. You think that is confusing, wait till you see the 7.62 calibers, as they have a X ie: 7.62X39 vs 7.64 x 54
Thanks!

--TotalNewbie

its just dern confusing

[junyo]

A query on vocabulary: my understanding (and your usage in the above post is consistent with my understanding) is that the word “caliber” refers to the nominal diameter of the bullet. Although I assume that you cannot use 38 Special cartridges and 38 S&W cartridges interchangeably (or 45 Long Colt / 45 ACP / 45 GAP), would this ammunition be considered the same caliber? If so, is there a term that differentiates the 38 Spl and 38 S&W cartridges? How would you complete this sentence: “38 Spl is the same caliber as 38 S&W but a different ___”?
Technically "caliber" has nothing to do with the bullet itself, it refers to the internal diameter of the weapon's bore. Therefore all bullets that would go down that barrel and catch rifling would be the same caliber, but obviously the chamber size/shape/pressure limits wouldn't allow just any given cartridge with a bullet of the correct diameter to be fired. Thus, "“38 Spl is the same caliber as 38 S&W but a different chambering". Which leads us to...

Furthermore on vocabulary, I understand that there are many different kinds of bullets of the same caliber, used in the same firearm. Different ‘flavors’ of bullets in the same casings. For example, according to the Shooter’s Bible, Federal Ammunition makes .308 cartridges comprising bullets termed soft point, soft point round nose, soft point flat nose, and full metal jacket boat-tail. Is there a term for the same kind of cartridges comprising different kinds of bullets? How would you complete this sentence: “A .308 cartridge with soft point round nose bullet is a different ____ then a .308 cartridge with a soft point flat nose bullet.”?
The simplest answer is chambering, which would describe the round via the weapon that it was designed to be used with. Describing via the bullet or the casing will always be problematic, whereas the weapon acts as a de facto standard. Thus a 270 Winchester, which is a .277" diameter bullet in a necked down 30-06 case and yet capable of higher max pressure than the 30-06, can be referred to simply by the weapons that will safely chamber and fire it.

Final query on caliber nomenclature: As with any other mechanical piece of equipment, the nominal dimension of caliber is quoted either in millimeters or inches (OK, 100ths or 1000th of an inch). This makes sense to me; once you construct a piece of equipment in one system, you stick with that system for rest of the product life of that equipment, because you simply cannot sue tools and parts that are based on the different system. But why is some ammunition (and rifles/carbines that accept such ammunition) titled in both systems? For example, it appears to me that the ammunition for an M-16 is termed as .223, or as 5.56 mm. The .223 and 5.56 is not simply interchangeable ammunition, or measurements converted from one system to the other, but it seems that the ammunition has two different titles. What gives? Are firearms that accept this ammunition designed and manufactured using tools and parts based on the metric system or on the imperial system?
It's because firearms weren't developed via a single consistent system. You had Americans, British, and mainland Europe all with different measuring systems and nomenclature, developing rounds and and adopting foreign ones into their system. The most consistent is probably the European method, which describes the round's bullet diameter and length. Thus 5.56 NATO is European 5.56×45mm, and 7.62 NATO is 7.62x51mm whereas Warsaw Pact .30 caliber ammo is 7.62x39mm as Frenchie mentioned, or the Swiss' variant the 7.5x55mm Schmidt Rubin. (Technically, 5.56mm isn't interchangable with .223. The 5.56 NATO is loaded to higher pressures.). Americans generally go with caliber and the originator (thus the vast number of .XXX Remington/Colt/Winchster/Browning's) or with bullet diameter and powder load (45-70), or for military usage with caliber and year of adoption (30-06). Of course none of that's consistent.

A good place to start is www.chuckhawks.com Chuck has excellent
articles on most of the current ammo types.

[TotalNewbie]

Wow! I really appreciate these exhaustive replies. Thank you very much for being so helpful and patient. Sorry for sounding so obtuse, and pain in the @ss, but before I start to discuss ammunition, I want to make sure that my vocabulary is correct, despite the fact that there numerous conflicting terminology on the ‘Net. If you (or someone else) have the energy and interest, a follow-up.

My understanding is that what you load into a magazine, a clip or the firearm directly is termed “cartridge”. Cartridge is comprised of a case, powder, primer, and a bullet. “Bullet” is the thing that is shot out the muzzle, and not what you load into the firearm. (Yes, I get it that if an average Joe walks into a store and asks for bullets for his rifle, that he’ll likely be understood by the storekeeper to be asking for cartridges and that he does not want to handload his ammunition). The brass part of the cartridge is “case”, “casing”, or “shell”. The term “projectile” is a generic of bullet; rifles, handguns and shotguns shoot projectiles, but only rifles and handguns shoot bullets. Is my vocabulary OK so far?

From the postings here, and information in the Shooter’s Bible, I understand that the shape of a 38 S&W case is different than that of a 38 spl case. I also understand that a soft point flat nose bullet is a different kind of bullet than a full metal jacket boat-tail bullet. What I am trying to find out if there is a commonly used vocabulary word that describes the classification different kind of ammunition based on the shape of the case (or of the cartridge) alone, and if there is a commonly used vocabulary word that describes the classification of ammunition based on the shape or kind of the bullet. If I understand Junyo’s post, the classification based on the shape of the case would be termed “chambering”, right?

If I were to walk into a full service photo equipment store and ask for a lens for my photo gear, the conversation might go something like this:
Me: I want an auto-focus prime lens for my Nikon.
Seller: What focal length?
Me: 70 mm.
Seller: What aperture?
Me: f/2.8.
Seller: Here you go.

If I were to walk into a full-service tire store for tires, the conversation might go something like this:
Me: I want a set of Michelin touring tires for my sedan.
Seller: What rims?
Me: 14 inch.
Seller: What aspect ratio?
Me: 70.
Seller: What speed rating?
Me: H
Seller: What tread-wear rating?
Me: 440.
Seller: Here you go.

Now, if I were to walk into an ammo shop, asking for cartridges, would the conversation go something as follows?
Me: I want cartridges for my handgun.
Seller: What caliber?
Me: .38
Seller: What chambering?
Me: For a .38 Special
Seller: What bullet type?
Me: Wadcutter.
Seller: Here you go.

Do the last two queries of the seller sound correct? Is there a better term then “bullet type”?

[TotalNewbie]

(Technically, 5.56mm isn't interchangable with .223. The 5.56 NATO is loaded to higher pressures.).

Thanks! Now it makes more sense. I suspected that the history of the NATO firearm is as convoluted as you described, but titling the same ammo in two nomenclature did not make sense. Now it is clear that there is a reason for the two titles.

Americans generally go with caliber and the originator (thus the vast number of .XXX Remington/Colt/Winchster/Browning's) or with bullet diameter and powder load (45-70), or for military usage with caliber and year of adoption (30-06). Of course none of that's consistent.

Actually, it does not appear as bad as products in some other less capitally intensive, non-standardized, heterogeneous industries. For example, I am very surprised by seeing how many different manufacturers of firearms share chambering with other manufacturers, and how many different cartridge manufacturers there are per chambering. The commoditazation of the firearm and ammunition industries is a boon for customers.

(I hope that I am using the term chambering correctly)

[junyo]

...but titling the same ammo in two nomenclature did not make sense. Now it is clear that there is a reason for the two titles.

Not always. 9mm NATO, 9x19mm, 9mm Luger, and 9mm Parabellum are all pretty much the same round. 9x17mm, .380 ACP, 9mm Browning Short, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Corto are all the same, and different from the former.

Now, if I were to walk into an ammo shop, asking for cartridges, would the conversation go something as follows?
Me: I want cartridges for my handgun.
Seller: What caliber?
Me: .38
Seller: What chambering?
Me: For a .38 Special
Seller: What bullet type?
Me: Wadcutter.
Seller: Here you go.

Do the last two queries of the seller sound correct? Is there a better term then “bullet type”?

The real world problem is most people aren't as careful with their usage of the language. For instance in the venacular a lot of people will use the term caliber very loosely. You will rarely, if ever, hear the word chambering spoken. Real world the conversation would be:
You: I want cartridges for my handgun.
Seller: What kind?
You: Of gun, or ammunition?
Seller: Either.
You: For a .38 Special
Seller: So do you want .357 or .38 special?
You: Pretty sure I just said for a .38 Special.
Seller: Okay. For targets or self defense?
You: For self defense.
Seller: Well, we've got these full metal jacket .38 Special, just like the Army uses.
You: I'd prefer wadcutters.
Seller: Really? Well okay. What size?
You: Excuse me?
Seller: What size? We've got 110 grain, 125, and 158.
You: I'll take the 158 grain.

You can't always assume that the person with whom you're speaking is using the word the same way you are. To further muddy the conversation I added something to the conversation. As you already know the dimensions that describe a particular chambering include the weapon it's chambered for and the type of bullet. You also need to consider bullet weight, the loading pressure (and there I'm probably using the wrong terminology but someone will correct me), and for completeness with regard to handloads the propellent type (typically the latter doasn't come into play when buying commercial ammo). So you can have completely different performance dynamics between type different loadings of the same chambering. To completely describe a particular cartridge you might say " I'm looking for a 124 grain P+ JHP in 9mm" or " I need a box of 230 grain .45 ACP FMJ".

[TotalNewbie]

Thank you for explaining this to me. In addition to reading up on my own, it is actually very helpful to get these kinds of questions answered by a real live human being. Thanks!

OK, let me make sure that I am not missing any variables. So far I’ve got:
(a) caliber;
(b) chambering;
(c) bullet shape (e.g.; spitzer, hollow point, flat nose, semi-pointed, etc.; bullet framing; etc.)
(d) bullet jacketing;
(e) bullet mass;
(f) bullet density;
(g) bullet coefficient (?, I’ll have to find out what that is later); and
(h) propellant (loading weight, propellant type).

(Yes, I do realize that some of the above variables are not independent of each other.)

Am I missing something?

One thing that I do know that I did not put on the list is the 4th part of a cartridge (casing, bullet, and powder, being the other three): primer. I noticed that the vast majority of articles on ammunition spend time on casing, bullets and some on powder, but there is little attention paid to primer. Do most shooters worry about the characteristics of primers in their ammo, or is that pretty much a commodity that no one really pays too much attention to?