Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Rising Sun
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    Default SLCFSA Rule Changes

    Was out on the range in July a few weekends ago on a Saturday. Was abnormally crowded Every table had a shooter, all were firing some sort of Semi-auto rifle. We were all flagged down by the President for Rapid firing.

    Just an FYI to anyone going up there - the rules have changed as of the July Members Meeting. They are not marked on the Rules Board posted on the ranges that you must wait 3 seconds between shots - double taps allowed. I was told that the rule change was in the July-August newsletter (However I still haven't received it as of today). I see that they did post the rules on the website within the past two weeks.

    My understanding from Dave is that there are people who live nearby a gun range who are complaining about the noise coming from a gun range.

    The entire interaction with the president was accusatory and negative. Seems like he was angry at people for not knowing the rules that no one knew about. In fact every shooter on the line had no idea of the rule changes. I got the impression through the rest of my day that there was someone behind me with a stop watch. It was enough to ruin an otherwise great day for the range. I packed up and headed out.

    I've only been a member for two years, I'm not really sure if I'll continue to be a member. I don't need to rapid fire a rifle, but 1 second between shots (Enough to exhale and draw half a breath) is a very reasonable rule on the range. Doesn't seem like they'll have any issues replacing me since they have to cap their membership. But It's a damn shame it has to ruin an otherwise excellent facility with great people there and really good CMP events.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lancaster, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Posts
    139
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    455044

    Default Re: SLCFSA Rule Changes

    Sounds like they have learned how to NOT communicate with members like Mt. Joy has.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Media, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    1,912
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    2895594

    Default Re: SLCFSA Rule Changes

    Yes it could be frustrating being called on a rule that has not been openly posted yet. No doubt, the new policy will have signage soon.
    That being said, do not cut your nose off to spite your face by dropping out. It is the best club around relative to policies and facilities. I have been a member of and shot at many of the area clubs and rules are quickly made and slowly posted as such. That is the one consistent among them all.

    The neighbors will complain about noise regarding the club's activities no matter of policies regarding rapid fire. Weekend activities there are well populated and noise is the byproduct. I suppose between the increased membership/shooters and perhaps some new neighbors that are unaware of guns making noise, policies will be changed to keep the peace if that is even possible.
    Last edited by c45man; August 22nd, 2014 at 12:42 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Thorndale, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Age
    38
    Posts
    274
    Rep Power
    652303

    Default Re: SLCFSA Rule Changes

    I can understand not going crazy with rapid fire for safety reasons. But because neighbors are complaining? They live near a gun range. What does it matter how it sounds? It's gun fire!

    I hate these ranges that make these stupid rules. I'll be shooting like I want. I pay money. End of story.

    --

    Note this was said in the heat of passion and I do follow all the rules as explained to me by the Safety Committee.
    Last edited by libertyof76; May 7th, 2015 at 11:03 PM. Reason: Clarification

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Christiana, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Posts
    19
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    0

    Default Re: SLCFSA Rule Changes

    Wait till you find out that they raised the cost to the membership to $75.00 and not announcing the increase at all like they use too.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Middle of PA, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    5,483
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    21474847

    Default Re: SLCFSA Rule Changes

    So the neighbors hope to reduce the noise by making the shooters spend MORE TIME at the range?


    Makes sense.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Where the amish roam, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Posts
    1,473
    Rep Power
    8131859

    Default Re: SLCFSA Rule Changes

    No the issue arose when we had a rash of idiots come out and go from every couple seconds to every second to bangbangbangbang bang well you get the idea. Essentially they unloaded as fast as they could. There are no range officers to make sure folks can control the direction of fire or muzzle rise while trying to unload as fast as possible so that's reason one. Reason two the neighbor just put a house behind our 300 yd range (hence the neighbor issues) it does become a potential problem. Telling someone they built their home behind a range unfortunately does not absolve the club from any liability if a stray bullet or bullets punch holes in his house.

    As for those who didn't get the newsletter it has been discussed at every meeting for the past 6 months. We have new signs and bulletin boards going up to specify what has been discussed. If nobody received any newsletter all year then at one point or another you may have wanted to call or maybe go to a meeting and make sure they have your info right.

    Problem is that everyone is out to get our clubs, further more the idiot over at mount joy who did the exact same thing and by coincidence couldn't miss the broadside of the barn puts all of us in a bad light. Couple that with the fact we now have a home behind our ranges makes ift difficult to let everyone go rapid fire happy due to the fact that it only takes one moron who doesn't know better to turn us into another mount joy.

    So in short we have a great club Dave's not killing everyone on the three second rule currently provided your not rapid firing but you do need to display control of your firearm. So as long as your in control and you can normally hear it he hasn't been heavy handed. However the other problem was we had a group of people none of whom were members that got caught with someone else's card and the idiots went rapid fire then argued about it...... But they weren't members so again we work on trust in our club and we have to be extremely diligent if we want to keep it around. We are one of the few places that require almost nothing to join have a nice 300yd range. We are trying to expand to possibly another set of rifle ranges, catwalks for the archery range, possibly .....possibly longer ranges as well. Trying to purchase any land that comes up for sale so really I mean all in all is it so bad that our President is trying to play nice with the locals in order to expand the club and improve it?

    I would say if there's an issue come to a meeting and express your point of view as with any member your well within your rights to do so. But its not like you don't have a voice in this you just need to use it where it can be useful.
    Last edited by HKusp 45; September 19th, 2014 at 11:11 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Where the amish roam, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Posts
    1,473
    Rep Power
    8131859

    Default Re: SLCFSA Rule Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by copperhead View Post
    Wait till you find out that they raised the cost to the membership to $75.00 and not announcing the increase at all like they use too.
    Announced at the past 3 meetings and in the newsletters as well , the unfortunate truth is that things come up and things break. These things much like owning a home are not always planned for and happen suddenly how many people plan for their roof to leak? So they raised the membership 25 bucks that's about $2.00 a month.

    Its always surprising everyone seems to like the improvements that are done well they aren't free. Also think about the potential legal issues that any entity which involves firearms needs to be ready for. Having a reserve to be able to handle surprises is not a bad thing. For the little bit more is going to cost we end up with a better club.

    Now if you can direct me to anyplace local that charges less has the same accommodations and tries to improve as slcfsa then by all means point they way. But I'm thinking we get way more than we pay for here. I'm more surprised that anyone didn't understand that. All finances are reviewed at every meeting and posted for all to see in the clubhouse.

    Oh and the last increase was done exactly the same way under the previous President. Except it never got a vote we voted this in last meeting because I for one would like to see the club grow in our community and be around for my kids to use.
    Last edited by HKusp 45; September 19th, 2014 at 11:28 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Between a rock and a hard place, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Age
    44
    Posts
    90
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    823

    Default Re: SLCFSA Rule Changes

    HKusp45:

    Thank you for shedding some common sense and a dose of reality to this thread. I too have been to the meetings and I am a little more involved than 99.99% of the rest of the 2200 members. I feel that Dave has been upfront about everything so far and truly has the long term best interest of the club as a whole as his priority.

    For the people that are bent out of shape about the three second rule it was necessary to revise the rapid fire rule to make it less vague and make it more in line with NRA RSO standards. The club has always had a rapid fire rule for as long as I can remember the problem was that it was written so vaguely and subject to various interpretations as to be un enforceable. I was one of the RSOs on the safety committee that revised our rapid fire rule. Let me say that there were more draconian rules on the table besides the three second rule, but in the best interest of the club and not to be a "range nazi" they were thrown in the trash heap of ideas. The three second rule is not unknown to other clubs in the area and we were trying to mirror that standard at SLCFSA.

    As for the dues increase HKusp45 pretty much covered the bases with his description of the events leading up to the meeting this past Monday night. The bottom line is that the club is operating with a razor thin budget and one broken tractor, unforeseen range damage, or god forbid a lawsuit will plunge the budget into the red ink for as far as the eye can see.

    I just find it funny and a little ironic that our former president, Mike Hauer, was one of the ring leaders in the dues increase rebellion that we had to endure for the past two meetings. The past three dues increases were done the same exact way that this increase was done and Mike was in charge the last time it was increased. The old adage what is good for the goose is good for the gander comes to mind. The problem is that Mike Hauer and a few of the trap shooters hate and despise Dave, and they want to do everything they can to cause trouble. I still find it amazing the see grown men act like petulant 12 year olds when they do not get their way all the time.

    The bottom line is this. If you don't like the safety rule changes or the dues increase you got the right to complain about it. You have a few options to deal with it. 1. Put on your big boy pants, act like an adult and follow the rules just like everyone else. 2. Get more involved, work with the system in place and try to change the rules to more of your liking. 3. If you absolutely can not abide the rules do dues increase vote with your feet and move on to where the rules are more to your liking. There is a 2200 member cap at SLCFSA and there are more than enough people, come January, to take your place that are willing to abide by the rules.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    New London TWP, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    1
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    0

    Default Re: SLCFSA Rule Changes

    I just looked over this thread and have a few thoughts.

    @egon12 You make an important point that every member of SLCFSA needs to understand. Since there are plenty of people ready to be become members there is no need to consider anyone's view. Everything else is camouflage. This is basic supply/demand.

    1. I was there on the day blackseven is talking about and everything happened as described.

    2. I have since obtained a copy of the newsletter and it does have all the pertinent information. Having said that, it doesn't makes this ridiculous policy any less ridiculous.

    Lets review the reasoning for a moment.

    a. Safety. This club allows people to join without verifying the knowledge, ability or understanding of safety. It further doesn't require a training class to be taken prior to joining. Regulations don't make you safe, training does. So lets not pretend that safety theater we have going on makes us any more safe.

    b. Rash of idiots. Club leadership controls the criteria for entry for both members and guests. Undesirable elements were allowed in. Who is the idiot ? Its likes the cops coming to investigate a robbery and arresting the victim.

    c. Neighbor issues. I completely agree that "telling someone they built their home behind a range unfortunately does not absolve the club from any liability". After they built it its too late. But what about before? Who is minding the store while this is going on? Who is in charge?

    As far as the rates go, I am OK with raising the rates. If the money continues to go toward improvements and the issues above are addressed I don't see why not.
    Last edited by dyavol; September 21st, 2014 at 02:17 AM.

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