What would you have done?

**Didnotcomply89** · August 12th, 2014, 01:18 AM

1) I would have told him to keep his hands where I could see them with my gun drawn. Then again, I wouldn't put myself in that situation if I could help it.

2) I would not have shot unless there was great threat of physical harm or they had a weapon.

Hell, he won't even use a box cutter/utility blade.

WOW.

**LordTobias** · August 12th, 2014, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Didnotcomply89

1) I would have told him to keep his hands where I could see them with my gun drawn. Then again, I wouldn't put myself in that situation if I could help it.

2) I would not have shot unless there was great threat of physical harm or they had a weapon.

WOW.

Yeah, he's basically a giant bitch. Well, the issue was there's really only two ways to walk home from her house to mine. It's only a two minute walk (our houses are three blocks away), give or take. I tried avoiding him and walking faster, but as the original post says he sped up to get closer.

**Jhaydeno** · August 12th, 2014, 08:41 AM

Situation 1 : just a reminder, if you ever have to draw your gun you also want to be the first one to call the police and explain the situation. Imagine that you walked another block and the police show up, toss you on the hood, cuff you, and throw you in the round house overnight, all because the guy who was going to rob you called the cops and claimed there's a man with a gun...

**LordTobias** · August 12th, 2014, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Jhaydeno

Situation 1 : just a reminder, if you ever have to draw your gun you also want to be the first one to call the police and explain the situation. Imagine that you walked another block and the police show up, toss you on the hood, cuff you, and throw you in the round house overnight, all because the guy who was going to rob you called the cops and claimed there's a man with a gun...

Fair point, and sound advice. I won't call the cops unless it's basically life or death, though, because response times around here are sad. It took them 20 minutes to show up after my store was robbed and it took them 13 hours (yes, you read that correctly) to show up to someone trying to break into my cousin's house (who lives ten houses away). Given how it played out (and that I didn't draw my gun) I didn't feel it was entirely necessary to call. Still a good idea to, but I didn't.

**free** · August 12th, 2014, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by LordTobias

Fair point, and sound advice. I won't call the cops unless it's basically life or death, though, because response times around here are sad. It took them 20 minutes to show up after my store was robbed and it took them 13 hours (yes, you read that correctly) to show up to someone trying to break into my cousin's house (who lives ten houses away). Given how it played out (and that I didn't draw my gun) I didn't feel it was entirely necessary to call. Still a good idea to, but I didn't.

tell them someone has just been shot and the shooter has a hostage. They will show up in 5 minutes.

**LordTobias** · August 12th, 2014, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by free

tell them someone has just been shot and the shooter has a hostage. They will show up in 5 minutes.

Hahaha

I'll bet they would!

**free** · August 12th, 2014, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by LordTobias

Hahaha

I'll bet they would!

"doughnut sale, 80% off" also works well.

**mosseater** · August 12th, 2014, 11:36 AM

Scen. 1, I'm not sure I would have "squared up with him" and stood there monologing. The hair on my neck was at attention and I wasn't even there. Maybe moving while watching his hands closely. Hands kill! Sounds like you verbalized nicely. "DONT MOVE !", "DON'T TOUCH THAT WEAPON!!" may have been useful. It lets him know you know or suspect, while also alerting any possible witnesses. Screaming it might just make him change his mind right there. However, if violence is in his plan, the need for further communication is useless. If he's on the bike, he's going to have trouble tracking you if you are semi-circling him while moving away at vectors. He moves, you move, keep him off-balance. Also, when I have to be out at night, my light is in my support hand with lanyard attached and ready to go. Putting that in his face would go a long way to tipping the tables in your favor. It was pretty obvious he wasn't looking to discuss current events. If he moves with you and persists, especially after you've seen "a weapon", and he knows you're no easy pickin's, it's time to decide. Don't be late.

Scen.2, Not sure I have enough grasp of the details of the situation to be of help with any comments. Again, I think you knew the jig was up early on, so staying and protecting the merch from inside the store seems foolhardy if you're not going to press the go button. While waiting for the situation to develope, you gave them time to embolden themselves. Not sure the cop was too far off with his advice.

Maybe no immediate threat of death or great bodily harm, but disparity of force springs to mind. Being ensconced inside the store, unless there's good cover, doesn't work in your favor to my way of thinking. No one ever filed paperwork for running away. While you may have the right to defend yourself and your property, I'm like you, I really would rather not have to if I can get away. If you get between them and the door....now what? There's a choice I'd rather not make if I can avoid it. If they just want out and haven't shown a weapon (other than the previous disparity) now you're between them and freedom, and if it's a blockade you intentionally placed, it's going to be up to you to show what your manifest intentions were. Are you apprehending? Or stopping? "Arresting"? How and why? If they advance and you claim ability and jeopardy by disparity of force, it's a situation you instigated.

It sounds ridiculous, but possible to be seen in that light. I've heard you can make a citizen's arrest, but there's precious little talk of how it works. The methods exist and have been discussed and passed on in my presence, followed closely by the advice to not find yourself in that situation if possible. I'm not a cop, don't play one on tv. I just like breathing and keeping all the red juice on the inside. YMMV

**LordTobias** · August 12th, 2014, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by mosseater

Scen. 1, I'm not sure I would have "squared up with him" and stood there monologing. The hair on my neck was at attention and I wasn't even there. Maybe moving while watching his hands closely. Hands kill! Sounds like you verbalized nicely. "DONT MOVE !", "DON'T TOUCH THAT WEAPON!!" may have been useful. It lets him know you know or suspect, while also alerting any possible witnesses. Screaming it might just make him change his mind right there. However, if violence is in his plan, the need for further communication is useless. If he's on the bike, he's going to have trouble tracking you if you are semi-circling him while moving away at vectors. He moves, you move, keep him off-balance. Also, when I have to be out at night, my light is in my support hand with lanyard attached and ready to go. Putting that in his face would go a long way to tipping the tables in your favor. It was pretty obvious he wasn't looking to discuss current events. If he moves with you and persists, especially after you've seen "a weapon", and he knows you're no easy pickin's, it's time to decide. Don't be late.

Scen.2, Not sure I have enough grasp of the details of the situation to be of help with any comments. Again, I think you knew the jig was up early on, so staying and protecting the merch from inside the store seems foolhardy if you're not going to press the go button. While waiting for the situation to develope, you gave them time to embolden themselves. Not sure the cop was too far off with his advice.

Maybe no immediate threat of death or great bodily harm, but disparity of force springs to mind. Being ensconced inside the store, unless there's good cover, doesn't work in your favor to my way of thinking. No one ever filed paperwork for running away. While you may have the right to defend yourself and your property, I'm like you, I really would rather not have to if I can get away. If you get between them and the door....now what? There's a choice I'd rather not make if I can avoid it. If they just want out and haven't shown a weapon (other than the previous disparity) now you're between them and freedom, and if it's a blockade you intentionally placed, it's going to be up to you to show what your manifest intentions were. Are you apprehending? Or stopping? "Arresting"? How and why? If they advance and you claim ability and jeopardy by disparity of force, it's a situation you instigated.

It sounds ridiculous, but possible to be seen in that light. I've heard you can make a citizen's arrest, but there's precious little talk of how it works. The methods exist and have been discussed and passed on in my presence, followed closely by the advice to not find yourself in that situation if possible. I'm not a cop, don't play one on tv. I just like breathing and keeping all the red juice on the inside. YMMV

Great post, Moss. I seldom carry my backup light on work days (I have a small keychain light and my phone has a ridiculous flash light), but I think that needs to change. Again, I should have specified. I squared up with him because he was maybe two feet away. I've had knives pulled on me before and was preparing for an up close fight. The second I saw what looked like a gun I reacted quickly. Circling him would have made more sense, but I wanted to make sure his hands weren't going to move from that bike.

Regarding scenario 2, what more details do I need to share for a better evaluation? I know I left some things out (didn't want it to turn into a wall of text), but whatever I can elucidate on I shall.

Edit:

I was just overlooking some of the details I left out. Leaving the store wasn't much of an option. One of them was towards the front entrance/exit, and the back door has a messed up lock that is a real bitch to open. I won't give up my back at all if I can help it (I've been hyper vigilant my whole life; long before I started carrying a gun), and I especially won't if I feel a fight is imminent. Like I said, the talker kept trying to draw me out into the middle of the store and into the middle of the three of them. When that failed, the rest happened as I described.

**Gun** · August 12th, 2014, 06:08 PM

I've been robbed at gunpoint, gave up the cash. My one employee was robbed, and upon being robbed, told the would-be-robber that he had no cash on him, and there was no cash in the store (full serve gas station). He probably said this because he was smoking a cig outside the store and did not want to be interrupted unless there was a customer. A car pulled on the lot and the robber skedaddled. My assistant was robbed and he gave up the cash. This guy is 6'5", 285, and can easily rock a pop vending machine, yet he gave up the cash.

People react differently, which is my point, so instead of asking us what we would have done, ask yourself what you would have done differently in these scenarios if anything, since you lived through the experience.