Free Speech Abolished

**larrymeyer** · June 19th, 2008, 12:53 PM

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...560699,00.html

Boys on Trial in Turkey for Singing Kurdish 'Anthem'

A choir from eastern Turkey sang a provocative song in Kurdish during a music festival in the United States. Now nine of the boys are on trial for supporting the illegal Kurdish rebel group, the PKK.

DPA
Cultural politics: Kurds in Diyarbakir, Turkey, celebrate Nawroz, the Kurdish new year, in March 2004.

A boys' choir from Diyarbakir is now on trial for singing a Kurdish song at a festival in the United States.
Three teenaged members of a boys' choir will go on trial today in Turkey for "making propaganda for a terrorist organization" -- namely the Kurdish separatist group, the PKK -- after singing a Kurdish song at a music festival in San Francisco late last year.

In October 2007 the boys sang a Kurdish-language march called "Ey Raqip" ("Hey Enemy") at the San Francisco World Music Festival. They performed a number of other songs, too, but the prosecutor in Turkey argues that "Ey Raqip" is a PKK anthem.

The indictment also says flags displayed at the festival belonged to the PKK. The defense says the flags were Kurdish but not specifically associated with the rebel group.

Six other members of the choir who are under 15 will be prosecuted under the same charges at a Children's Court in Diyarbakir, the city in southeastern Turkey where the choir is based. The three older boys -- aged 15 to 17 -- will be tried as adults.

'Promoting Separatism'

The head of the Diyarbakir Yenisehir Council Children's Choir, Duygu Özge Bayar, has said "Ey Raqip" was requested by the audience in San Francisco. "We shared our culture there, at the festival," he said in a statement. "We sang various songs showing the styles of Diyarbakir … If performing these songs is separatism, then we are guilty of promoting separatism."

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The boys' defense lawyer, Baran Pamuk, argues that the song was written 68 years ago, before the PKK was founded, by an Iranian-Kurdish poet called Dildar. But the prosecution says the song is now an anthem by the PKK.

Amnesty International has taken a position on the case, declaring that the song's performance "cannot be regarded as a threat to public order" and that the boys would be considered "prisoners of conscience" if convicted and thrown in jail.

The charges against the older boys carry a maximum sentence of five years behind bars.

**er2006** · June 19th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Turkey is paranoid about the Kurdish movement and will go to extremes to protect their nation, Unfortunately the Kurds do not think of themselves as Turkish , but as Kurds, they are a minority in Turkey and they are a minority in Iraq , but if they can unite they can form their own country. There are many Kurds in Iran as well. This holds the potential for further destabilizing the region. It will prove a very thorny problem for the next POTUS!

Ed

**625** · June 19th, 2008, 03:00 PM

I'm not sure I understand the title, Larry.

What does free speech have to do with Turkey? They have no "first amendment" there. They are being prosecuted in Turkey, not here. I think it sucks that they can't say what they want, but they have no right to do so over there.

**dinod** · June 19th, 2008, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by 625

I'm not sure I understand the title, Larry.

What does free speech have to do with Turkey? They have no "first amendment" there. They are being prosecuted in Turkey, not here. I think it sucks that they can't say what they want, but they have no right to do so over there.

But they did not sing those songs in Turkey!

It's like getting a speeding ticket in the US for driving at 120mph in Germany.

It may be against the law in the US to drive that fast, but it is may not be there - - how can that be prosecuted - - my brain is ceasing just trying to understand Turkey's logic on how they can prosecute these guys.

Thank God I am an American - that Third World mentality is whacked!!

**paul** · June 19th, 2008, 03:53 PM

As much of a huge crisis as it would cause, I don't see any problems in the long term with a sovereign Kurdistan, they've been running things up north in Iraq since the invasion and for a long time were the only stable area in country. I think the only reason they don't split is so they can get a cut of future Iraqi oil money, since the north doesn't have the deposits the south does.

**625** · June 19th, 2008, 04:06 PM

But they did not sing those songs in Turkey!

It's like getting a speeding ticket in the US for driving at 120mph in Germany.

It may be against the law in the US to drive that fast, but it is may not be there - - how can that be prosecuted - - my brain is ceasing just trying to understand Turkey's logic on how they can prosecute these guys.

Thank God I am an American - that Third World mentality is whacked!!

Yes, it is "whacked". Apparently their laws are far different than ours. They need to follow them wherever they go. It's kinda like reverse diplomatic immunity.

**ChamberedRound** · June 19th, 2008, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by dinod

But they did not sing those songs in Turkey!

It doesn't matter, as it seems Turkish nationals have no free speech rights. Unfortunately where it happened has no relevance to the Turkish government, and the US has no business in interfering with a nation's legal proceedings against their own citizens. It sucks for those persecuted, but now that they're back in their home country, it's unfortunately an internal matter. Definitely makes one grateful to be an American. As screwed up as it seems here sometimes, it's still WAY better than most other places on the planet.

Originally Posted by dinod

my brain is ceasing just trying to understand Turkey's logic on how they can prosecute these guys.

This is why the First Amendment is a fundamental freedom for Americans. In general, persecution of speech is a scary thing, as it's indirectly a persecution of thought as well. And the last thing I want is to live in a place where what I say, and by proxy what I think, regardless of where I am when I say it could find me in trouble with my government.

**larrymeyer** · June 19th, 2008, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by 625

I'm not sure I understand the title, Larry.

What does free speech have to do with Turkey? They have no "first amendment" there. They are being prosecuted in Turkey, not here. I think it sucks that they can't say what they want, but they have no right to do so over there.

We may be next if they take away the 2nd amendment or get away with Dickson City. I guess I'm tired about reading about us gun nuts from the CC crowed its tough enough to have the anti's beating up on us. And then to have gun owners agreeing with them.

So the title was just to show what happens when a bill of rights amendments is not followed.