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Thread: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon
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July 18th, 2014, 11:50 AM #11
Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon
the intentional taking of human life is presumed to be unlawful and the burden of proving otherwise is upon him who attempts to justify it. Commonwealth v. Wilkes, supra. In other words, justifiable homicide is an affirmative defense.
To me, that is the most important thing to keep in mind out there. In today's current law, even self defense killing is fraught with legal and monetary perils.
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July 18th, 2014, 11:53 AM #12Super Member
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Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon
A fleeing felon?
Save yourself a big bunch of trouble.
CALL 911 and let the police take care of the issue!
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July 18th, 2014, 03:44 PM #13Junior Member
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Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon
I agree, call the police and let them deal with it. Even in what APPEARS to be cut and dry self defense cases, people find themselves in hot water. Unfortunately
Of course theoretically this can be a viable defense in court. Although your intent could be construed as Any number of things. I.e. racially charged, "gun owner=violent person" etc.
I feel jumping into the middle of an on going crime would be ill advised. There are far too many unknown variables to consider.
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July 18th, 2014, 04:06 PM #14Grand Member
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July 19th, 2014, 05:11 PM #15Banned
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Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon
Just because you are not charged with a crime does not mean you won't have your life ruined with a civil lawsuit, you know. Such a suit can drag on for several years, cost you your job/biz, your wife, all your money, and so on. Also, illegal actions by the guy's buddies can kill you, burn your home, destroy your car, scare all your friends/family to death, cause your wife to leave you, etc. Leave the Batman stuff to batman, is the best advise. You aint a cop, don't play one in real life.
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June 23rd, 2018, 11:10 PM #16
Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon
"Cives Arma Ferant"
"I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001
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June 24th, 2018, 04:40 AM #17Grand Member
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Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon
A few years ago, a guy in Erie shot a home invader in his neighbor's house when he was fleeing the scene. He had beaten both of the homeowners with a crowbar. No charges were filed. The wife later died from her injuries. The strange thing was, this guy just randomly picked the house to hole up in.
http://www.goerie.com/article/20160424/NEWS/610129575
The "suspect" never made it to trial. He was found dead by hanging in his cell.
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June 24th, 2018, 04:59 AM #18
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June 24th, 2018, 07:49 AM #19Grand Member
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Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon
I think that Erie home invasion good samaritan got fucking lucky that the police and prosecutor were feeling benevolent at that time, given how much of a scumbag the perp was, and the fact the wife died.
Member: NJ "undocumented" Felons Club. NRA Life Member
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June 24th, 2018, 07:53 AM #20
Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon
I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.
Every year I have to attend 20 hours of firearms training and 20 hours of ConEd (Continuing Education) classroom training to stay a Certified PA State Constable. TN v. Gardner and Graham v. Connor are always discussed in detail both times, every year, without fail, to explain one thing to us: When is it legal for an LEO to use force:
TN v. Gardner - In short, it states "the officer has probable cause [to use deadly force] if they believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." Before TN vs Gardner, an officer could shoot someone for a wide range of crimes even if they thought there was no indication the person was going to harm someone after the initial crime, the simple act of committing a wide range of crimes allowed the officer use deadly force.
Graham v. Connor - In short, it states "Our Fourth Amendment jurisprudence has long recognized that the right to make an arrest or investigatory stop necessarily carries with it the right to use some degree of physical coercion or threat thereof to effect it." and discusses in length "objective reasonableness standard" when making an arrest. Short answer, the courts will look at what the officer saw at the split second in making force decision and not a 20/20 hindsight review of the arrest/shooting.
What you don't read in these SCOTUS rulings, is the word "civilians". These cases are about LEO's and if I was a civilian, I would never use deadly force to stop a fleeing subject no matter the crime. In other words, once the criminal act has ended and the subject is fleeing, do not use deadly force to stop him. Now if the act is still in progress, well that's a different scenario.Last edited by WCMG; June 24th, 2018 at 07:57 AM.
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