Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 53
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
    9,636
    Rep Power
    21474860

    Default Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon

    the intentional taking of human life is presumed to be unlawful and the burden of proving otherwise is upon him who attempts to justify it. Commonwealth v. Wilkes, supra. In other words, justifiable homicide is an affirmative defense.

    To me, that is the most important thing to keep in mind out there. In today's current law, even self defense killing is fraught with legal and monetary perils.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Southern York County, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    849
    Rep Power
    15373428

    Talking Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon

    A fleeing felon?

    Save yourself a big bunch of trouble.

    CALL 911 and let the police take care of the issue!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    bensalem, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Age
    32
    Posts
    13
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon

    I agree, call the police and let them deal with it. Even in what APPEARS to be cut and dry self defense cases, people find themselves in hot water. Unfortunately

    Of course theoretically this can be a viable defense in court. Although your intent could be construed as Any number of things. I.e. racially charged, "gun owner=violent person" etc.

    I feel jumping into the middle of an on going crime would be ill advised. There are far too many unknown variables to consider.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PENNSYLVANIA, Pennsylvania
    Age
    73
    Posts
    3,780
    Rep Power
    21474854

    Cool Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    Oh boy !
    THIS !

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    50
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon

    Just because you are not charged with a crime does not mean you won't have your life ruined with a civil lawsuit, you know. Such a suit can drag on for several years, cost you your job/biz, your wife, all your money, and so on. Also, illegal actions by the guy's buddies can kill you, burn your home, destroy your car, scare all your friends/family to death, cause your wife to leave you, etc. Leave the Batman stuff to batman, is the best advise. You aint a cop, don't play one in real life.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    ..., Pennsylvania
    (Juniata County)
    Posts
    4,418
    Rep Power
    21474852

    Default Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    Here is the Chermansky ruling, and the most pertinent info in bold. Pay special attention to the underlined bold section.

    The general rule is: you must announce your intention to arrest them at minimum. Then, if you happen to kill them because you could not effect the arrest - it will be your duty to prove that they committed one of the enumerated felonies.
    With the recent protests of the justified shooting, PA laws of police use of force came up.

    Once again, this post was helpful.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Erie (Harborcreek), Pennsylvania
    (Erie County)
    Posts
    1,607
    Rep Power
    21474848

    Default Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon

    Quote Originally Posted by Cornhusker View Post
    Tennessee v. Garner 1974. To summarize...Shooting a fleeing felon is generally not ok. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
    A few years ago, a guy in Erie shot a home invader in his neighbor's house when he was fleeing the scene. He had beaten both of the homeowners with a crowbar. No charges were filed. The wife later died from her injuries. The strange thing was, this guy just randomly picked the house to hole up in.

    http://www.goerie.com/article/20160424/NEWS/610129575

    The "suspect" never made it to trial. He was found dead by hanging in his cell.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
    Age
    53
    Posts
    11,842
    Rep Power
    21474864

    Default Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenMilePete View Post
    A few years ago, a guy in Erie shot a home invader in his neighbor's house when he was fleeing the scene.
    So the invader was "fleeing", but also "in the house" still?
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Berkeley Heights, New Jersey
    Posts
    1,639
    Rep Power
    21474852

    Default Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon

    I think that Erie home invasion good samaritan got fucking lucky that the police and prosecutor were feeling benevolent at that time, given how much of a scumbag the perp was, and the fact the wife died.
    Member: NJ "undocumented" Felons Club. NRA Life Member

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    West Alexander, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
    Posts
    1,600
    Rep Power
    21474849

    Default Re: Citizens arrest / fleeing felon

    I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.

    Every year I have to attend 20 hours of firearms training and 20 hours of ConEd (Continuing Education) classroom training to stay a Certified PA State Constable. TN v. Gardner and Graham v. Connor are always discussed in detail both times, every year, without fail, to explain one thing to us: When is it legal for an LEO to use force:

    TN v. Gardner - In short, it states "the officer has probable cause [to use deadly force] if they believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." Before TN vs Gardner, an officer could shoot someone for a wide range of crimes even if they thought there was no indication the person was going to harm someone after the initial crime, the simple act of committing a wide range of crimes allowed the officer use deadly force.

    Graham v. Connor - In short, it states "Our Fourth Amendment jurisprudence has long recognized that the right to make an arrest or investigatory stop necessarily carries with it the right to use some degree of physical coercion or threat thereof to effect it." and discusses in length "objective reasonableness standard" when making an arrest. Short answer, the courts will look at what the officer saw at the split second in making force decision and not a 20/20 hindsight review of the arrest/shooting.

    What you don't read in these SCOTUS rulings, is the word "civilians". These cases are about LEO's and if I was a civilian, I would never use deadly force to stop a fleeing subject no matter the crime. In other words, once the criminal act has ended and the subject is fleeing, do not use deadly force to stop him. Now if the act is still in progress, well that's a different scenario.
    Last edited by WCMG; June 24th, 2018 at 07:57 AM.
    Washington County Machine Guns & Tactical Range -- CMP Affiliated Club -- FFL 07 / FFL 10 / FEL 20 / SOT 02 / ITAR
    Largest MG Rental Business on the entire East Coast. M2HB, M9 Flamethrower, M67 Grenades, M240 Bravo, M249 SAW, M1919, RPD, M60, Bowling Ball Mortar.
    Now offering High-Explosive Classes (Open to the Public)

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Citizens Arrest
    By Petraqskie in forum General
    Replies: 115
    Last Post: March 27th, 2017, 06:23 PM
  2. Fleeing Felon Rule?
    By F16vipers in forum General
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: August 22nd, 2011, 07:14 PM
  3. Seattle Citizens Arrest
    By paul in forum National
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: August 20th, 2011, 02:34 PM
  4. Citizens Arrest
    By Dametheman in forum General
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: January 30th, 2008, 04:21 PM
  5. Citizens arrest
    By P-11 shooter in forum General
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 18th, 2008, 04:04 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •