XD needs work. looking for gunsmith

[Mtbkski]

Things must have worked out, no more requests for info..

Damn that new gunsmith who got banned missed a good chance to impress us here...

Too bad.

Well, kind of.

Tore it apart again. Put it back together again. Finally figure out what was wrong. (Sorry, don't know the names of the parts)

I think it's called the "trigger bar" when installed would not move forward enough to pull the piece that has to go up and hit the button to release the trigger. (Yeah, sounds like I should be working on my own gun don't it).

I put the original back in and seen what was suppose to be happening. And the amount of travel needed would require an awful lot of grinding of material on the new "trigger bar".Sooooo, I just put the OLD TRIGGER bar back in and everything works again.

Guess I will have to send it in to get to work the way it is suppose to. Cause I'm not going to figure out what it needs. And I can't imagine that just a little sanding will solve the problem.

[Frenchy]

That is what a lot of smithing is about... Machinist work is precise measured and calculated..
Smith type work is fitting, shaping.. This is why as a Machinist, i never claimed to be a smith, a Milwright might be closer to a smith.. but you will notice all "smith" type work are visual and fitting, gunsmith, leather smith, tin smith, metal smith.. all occupations where you have to "see" it in your mind, see how it interacts so you can form it to do so.

[GrumpyBear]

That is what a lot of smithing is about... Machinist work is precise measured and calculated..
Smith type work is fitting, shaping.. This is why as a Machinist, i never claimed to be a smith, a Milwright might be closer to a smith.. but you will notice all "smith" type work are visual and fitting, gunsmith, leather smith, tin smith, metal smith.. all occupations where you have to "see" it in your mind, see how it interacts so you can form it to do so.

^^^ In red !!! Exactly.to frenchy must spread rep yada yada.

To the OP glad you have your gun working again.

I usually try to do all my own work also,mostly works out,mostly.

[Tomcat088]

Look near the end, where he "Picks" the sear to free it, like using the trigger but from the rear of the slide.


this help at all?

I got to this thread a little late, but this is exactly what I was going to tell him to do, and try to find a video of. I'm glad that it actually helped him out and freed up the slide.

Well, that wasn't it. And NOW... to get the slide back off of an XD, you have to pull the trigger first. AND I CAN'T PULL THE TRIGGER!!!! So, my slide is stuck in place and won't come back off for me to get to whatever is wrong with it.

If I showed you a pic, it would just be of the gun looking "normal". Sorry to disappoint you all.

Don't worry, you're not the first person to do this, and you definitely won't be the last. I'm glad that you were able to get it off with Frenchy's help. No reason to feel bad or ashamed of this though, I know quite a few people that it's happened to, and even more on the XD forums.

Well, kind of.

Tore it apart again. Put it back together again. Finally figure out what was wrong. (Sorry, don't know the names of the parts)

I think it's called the "trigger bar" when installed would not move forward enough to pull the piece that has to go up and hit the button to release the trigger. (Yeah, sounds like I should be working on my own gun don't it).

I put the original back in and seen what was suppose to be happening. And the amount of travel needed would require an awful lot of grinding of material on the new "trigger bar".Sooooo, I just put the OLD TRIGGER bar back in and everything works again.

Guess I will have to send it in to get to work the way it is suppose to. Cause I'm not going to figure out what it needs. And I can't imagine that just a little sanding will solve the problem.

I had a few questions, so that I might be able to help. I was curious about which videos for the install you had been watching, since I'm sure there are lots. I wasn't sure if you were actually watching the videos that Springer Precision themselves made about the fitting of the trigger, etc. I also wanted to make sure that you hadn't just bought the trigger bar, since it's designed to only work with their sear. Their kit comes with some different springs, the sear, etc. so that's why I wanted to check on that. I was curious how much material we're talking about that would need to be removed. As Frenchy said, that's part of what the whole "smithing" deal is. The trigger bar is purposefully made oversized so that it can be touched up and and fitted just right. That's how part of the overtravel, etc. is taken out of the trigger. Answering some of these questions may help us help you get the new trigger figured out. Hang in there.

http://www.springerprecision.com/videos.php << "Frame Part 1-3" is actually where they show you how to disassemble the frame, install their parts, and how and where to fit it.

[Mtbkski]

I got a parts kit from Springer. Came with hammer, trigger bar, springs. Don't think a sear was included. (Be honest with you, not sure what the heck the sear is )

When I put the trigger bar in, it is much longer, and when I pull the trigger, it strikes the the frame. (barely any room). The old trigger bar had almost a 1/4 inch of space. There is maybe a 1/16 of an inch of space on the new one.

When I put the old trigger bar in, I could see where it would pull a triangular piece with a little hook or bar at the top ( I believe this is the sear you talk about). It in turn, raises this little hook or bar up to strike a button on the top slide which releases the hammer. (at least that is what appears to happen).

With the new trigger bar in, this "sear" doesn't come up high enough to strike the button on the slide. In fact, it barely moves, if at all. It looks like I would have to remove a very substantial amount off the trigger bar to make it work.

[Mtbkski]

And yes, I was watching the videos by Springer, which reminds me. They do a crappy job of letting you actually "see" how parts go back in. You can tell it is made for people who have done this kind of work before. I would watch it again and again, trying to figure out how a certain part was suppose to go in. I did want to address this with them too. Going to do that now.

[Frenchy]

I got to this thread a little late, but ~Snip~

WTF you doing in Texas? Thought you where a die hard PA man...
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Lubbock, Texas

Then again, I am in or near Montreal now... Times change eh!

[Tomcat088]

WTF you doing in Texas? Thought you where a die hard PA man...
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Lubbock, Texas

Then again, I am in or near Montreal now... Times change eh!

Lol, Frenchy, I've always been from Texas. That's why it was sort of an odd fluke that I ended up on this board. When the forum was small, someone asked a question about ballistics, and nobody had answered. I felt bad for the poor guy, and made an account so that I could answer the question. Then I noticed there were some pretty cool people on the forum. My sister was also going to college in PA, so it didn't feel quite so distant or random. I've actually met some members of the forum before while traveling in PA. Sorry to disappoint you, Texan through and through here, lol.

[Tomcat088]

I got a parts kit from Springer. Came with hammer, trigger bar, springs. Don't think a sear was included. (Be honest with you, not sure what the heck the sear is )

When I put the trigger bar in, it is much longer, and when I pull the trigger, it strikes the the frame. (barely any room). The old trigger bar had almost a 1/4 inch of space. There is maybe a 1/16 of an inch of space on the new one.

When I put the old trigger bar in, I could see where it would pull a triangular piece with a little hook or bar at the top ( I believe this is the sear you talk about). It in turn, raises this little hook or bar up to strike a button on the top slide which releases the hammer. (at least that is what appears to happen).

With the new trigger bar in, this "sear" doesn't come up high enough to strike the button on the slide. In fact, it barely moves, if at all. It looks like I would have to remove a very substantial amount off the trigger bar to make it work.

This is what their sear looks like. If you bought the kit, it says that it should be in there. http://shop.springerprecision.com/pr...&categoryId=10 . Here's a little diagram of how they all fit together in the frame, so you know some of the names and how it all fits. The sear is what will hold the striker back in the "ready to fire" position, or "cocked". If you take off your slide and turn it over, you'll see a spring at the back of the slide and a little piece of metal that runs perpendicular to it. That piece is a part of the striker, which is what moves forward to strike the primer, which means the firing pin is actually a part of the striker in this design. If you try to move that use that piece of metal to pull the striker back, you'll see that it'll be under spring tension. So when the sear "drops" or allowed to drop by the trigger, it allows the striker to come forward, strike the primer, and fire the round.



Striker (found in the slide, but you'll only see the little strip of metal for now)


Part B in the diagram is the part that is on the striker, and what the sear engages and holds. Part A is the Striker Safety


Now that you have the diagram of parts, I think you'll be able to better explain what's going on. It sounds to me like you think that the trigger bar with the extra material isn't traveling far enough forward to allow the striker safety lever (in the frame) to raise up and hit the striker safety (Part A in the other photo) that's in the top of the slide. So that the striker cannot drop. Is that correct?

It sounds to me like the problem is that the trigger bar does need some fitting, which is how it's supposed to be. It looks like it's a substantial amount of material because you're comparing it to the old one. As you said, the old one has a LOT of extra room because it was designed to never really touch the frame. This is part of the reason that the trigger has so much over travel. It's because the trigger shoe travels until it physically touches the back of the trigger guard/front of grip. So you want to remove as little of that material that's at the front of the trigger bar that contacts the frame as possible, but that still allows the trigger to function properly. The sear is what addresses some of the pretravel of the trigger, and pull weight. The trigger bar is what helps eliminate the over travel of the trigger after the pistol fires, but the little "fin" that sticks up also helps to preload the trigger bar and keep it already pushed further forward so that some more of the pretravel is eliminated. If the trigger bar doesn't travel far enough forward though, it cannot move the striker safety lever UP so that it pushes the strike safety (in the slide) up, allowing the striker to move all the way forward as the sear drops so that the striker can hit the primer. It sounds to me like it's functioning how it's supposed to, but just needs a little off of the surface that he's telling you in the video. See right here at the 1:03 mark and watch just a little, it's the second surface he's talking about that needs to be adjusted. He's talking about that surface and fitting it around the 3:05 mark in the video. So you'll want to start to take just a little off at a time, so that the trigger came comes slightly further forward, and starts to raise the striker safety lever, but just starts to pivot and lower the sear. Remember to make sure that you have their spring and sear in place if you're making this adjustment. I haven't compared the two, but I'm guessing it has slightly different geometry so that the sear lower releases the striker without the trigger having to come so far back. At the 5:11 mark of the video where he has the back plate off the slide and he's looking through the striker, he's trying to show you the surfaces (although it's not really very visible). He's actually looking into the slide as you hold in the grip safety and pull the trigger, to see if the striker lever raises high enough to allow the striker to move forward, and so that the sear is pivoting enough and lowering to allow it to come forward.



I'll find a different video that goes over disassembly for you that is more detailed. There used to be a really good series on the XD forum, but I haven't seen that around in a while and it was for the old style. Also keep in mind that the original video that Frenchy linked shows some ways to test for function that are handy, without having to put everything back together the way that he does in the Springer Precision video. Let's see if this helps a little bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-7xg4zgOZU <<Here's the first part of a series of videos to disassemble and reassemble. I didn't watch them in their entirety, but it looks like he has all the right ideas. Keep in mind you may not need or want to remove everything that he does in these videos, but it's there so you can see it broken all the way down. The other videos of the series are linked to the right in the original video. On the 5th video he goes over removing the rear plate of the slide, it's definitely something to be careful with because it's under tension. Some people like to do this inside of a plastic bag, and I've even heard of people doing it in the bathtub WITH THE DRAIN CLOSED in case parts go different places, apparently they're easier to find there. This would get you to the steps where Scott is at on the Springer videos where he's checking that adjustment to make sure the sear lowers enough and the striker safety lever raises enough. I hope all this helps.

[Mtbkski]

The STRIKER SAFETY LEVER... that is what is giving me all the problems and that I knew wasn't working right. The trigger bar is not moving far enough forward to move this piece up.

I got a reply from Springer. (I bad mouthed the video). They agreed the video sucks. And tried to help me out, and told me to call if I needed more help.

They also informed me that I will have to grind or sand down the trigger bar. That is what the problem is. They sent me a pic of what to work on. Here it is. Upper left hand corner is the area giving me problems. Guess the pistol will get torn apart again, and this time, I will have to start grinding.