Recent graduate of PA Gunsmith School seeking employment

[normanvin]

Did I break one of the forum rules?

you hurt my feelings fathead How can we be the same person when I am the better smith? He doesn't even know how to checker that well!

yeah, I'm done with this bullshit forum too.

Yeah I am sure calling people names is not allowed. Or very mature.

[Don Quixote]

Honestly, I think his attitude is perfect for many of the gun store I have been too. Hostile, and surly. Perfect.

[IROCZ]

I think the problem may be most of the deep thinkers here seem to consider themselves to be self proclaimed gunsmiths because they can assemble an AR. I also think that the surly attitude you get may be from walking into someone else's business and trying to tell them how to do it. Or by being hired as a clerk at a gun store, our sit around in your parents basement running up your post count on a forum and all of a sudden your the gun expurt! This kid, who ever he is, spent well over 25 grand and almost 2 years of his life learning the basics of this trade and all he is looking for is a job. It is a very demanding course. That is more of a commitment than spending your days establishing yourself as an internet expert. But a lot of less committed folks here stand in line to kick him in the nuts. Kudos to the folks that gave him sound advice.

[normanvin]

I think the problem may be most of the deep thinkers here seem to consider themselves to be self proclaimed gunsmiths because they can assemble an AR. I also think that the surly attitude you get may be from walking into someone else's business and trying to tell them how to do it. Or by being hired as a clerk at a gun store, our sit around in your parents basement running up your post count on a forum and all of a sudden your the gun expurt! This kid, who ever he is, spent well over 25 grand and almost 2 years of his life learning the basics of this trade and all he is looking for is a job. It is a very demanding course. That is more of a commitment than spending your days establishing yourself as an internet expert. But a lot of less committed folks here stand in line to kick him in the nuts. Kudos to the folks that gave him sound advice.

Any job has an entry period. It does not matter how much you plunked down for your training. What matters is that you can do the job in a satisfactory fashion and rarely screw up someones property.

Can he do that? I could not tell you. And that has nothing to do with posting on the internet. Start low prove your self earn a solid rep and you can then demand more. Or at least that is the way it works in the real world.

[IROCZ]

Any job has an entry period. It does not matter how much you plunked down for your training. What matters is that you can do the job in a satisfactory fashion and rarely screw up someones property.

Can he do that? I could not tell you. And that has nothing to do with posting on the internet. Start low prove your self earn a solid rep and you can then demand more. Or at least that is the way it works in the real world.

This is true, but the kid wants to work and his education should be worth more than the guy who runs the fries at Mickey D's.

[normanvin]

This is true, but the kid wants to work and his education should be worth more than the guy who runs the fries at Mickey D's.

You would think that. Many college grads making french fries.

[Don Quixote]

This is true, but the kid wants to work and his education should be worth more than the guy who runs the fries at Mickey D's.

It will be.... Eventually... The French Fry job will never pay much more. That's the difference

[39flathead]

This is true, but the kid wants to work and his education should be worth more than the guy who runs the fries at Mickey D's.

If he wanted to work, he'd take a starting position like he was offered.

As for his worth, it will be, eventually, if he would only be willing to start at the bottom and work his way into a good client base and get a good list of industry contacts.

Instead he and his "friend" (and it appears you as well) think he should be making 50K while the ink on his degree is still wet.

I offered him solid advice based on the way the real world works, he and his "friend" didn't want to hear that, he wanted someone to plunk him down into a seat and start handing him cash.
Sorry, not going to happen, especially with the attitude he showed here.

The truth hurts some people, as evidenced by this thread.


Just a little FYI, I'm not sitting in Mommy's basement and I know a little bit about the firearms industry and I also personally know more than one instructor from the school as well as a few graduates, one of which works for Holland and Holland.
The next time I have lunch with a certain instructor I'll be sure to let him know that he has done such a fine job of instructing that his students are worth 50K the day after they pack up their tools, at least in their minds they are.

One of my best friends is a graduate from the school, he started out in a small local shop and within two years was working at a major nationwide firearms retailer, within a couple years of that he was being invited to elk hunts with Beretta reps and deer hunts with Sig and Remington reps.
All the while he was meeting people, building contacts and buying equipment.
He got to the point where he didn't need the corporate benefits and is now running his own shop and is about to expand it within the year and will be hiring two to four smiths.
He has more work than he can handle.
He has been working on buying estates and I've been his internet guy.

One of his contacts recently let him in on a 700+ firearm estate for sale.
We got to pick over the stuff, buying Garands, Carbines, Swede mausers, Finnish Mosins, Fal's, SVT40's, Pre-64 Winchesters in the boxes, piles of "gallery" .22's as well as odd things like Spanish FR8's and French MAS rifles down to beatup Sino-Soviet SKS's.

These contacts are not gained overnight.
Thus far, the initial 10K investment we put together has netted each of us more than 4K with over half of the guns still waiting to be either listed or sold to other contacts.

The OP needs to suck up his pride, and take one of those jobs, in a couple years he could well be set, I offered him that advice based on reality, he refused to accept it.
I wished him well, and I meant it, instead I got insulted by immature know-nothings that feel they are entitled.
I got a PM from one of these immature fellows daring me to meet him face to face.
Is this the kind of person you want working on your firearm?
A hothead that will get pissed at you because you might not like his work?
What's he going to do, shoot you for hurting his feelings?

The OP was offered jobs, but they just weren't up to his expectations, he got some advice and he didn't like it, nor did his "friend", well, that's life, no matter what the President says.

[Schlafftablett]

You would think that. Many college grads making french fries.

Very true but that is generally due to the high surplus of "educated" idiots. I feel sorry for those in Gen X and younger who have bought into the "you must get a bachelors to amount to anything" mantra. Education is the key for sure but not necessarily a $50k college degree in women's studies etc. I know dozens of folks with degrees they have never and will never use and the boost it gave to their resume's dubious at best. I believe that for many folks a trade school is probably the way to go and gunsmithing certainly can be a good path to follow.

That said, there is no doubt the OP has presented with a bad attitude (one I'm sure he doesn't see) but to the extent I have shared his frustration, I do understand it. I graduated from PGS a number of years ago and had been working in the industry for almost 20 years. Its a tough row to hoe and he really does need to accept that even $10/hr is well paid for his level of training and experience at this point.

I am a veteran, have been a gun store manager, run contract security in IRQ and AFG, was a military armorer, an apprentice machinist, and part time range officer and instructor. Even with that background I never expected to make more than $10/hr for my first few years in the trade and even now with my own (relatively successful) shop I still train and pick up other side jobs from time to time.

I'm not only a graduate but occasionally guest lecture at PGS and rest assured that this entire thread will be posted up on my next visit as a cautionary tale. I know of at least 5 potential employers, myself included, who won't be considering OP for any position based solely on this thread. He may be a good smith but in this business environment attitude is everything and entitled, arrogant, and combative attitudes just aren't going to cut it. I do wish him luck though and only hope he learns from this thread.

[wakefield724]

Well I thought I was the most hated member of pafoa... Thanks for taking the attention away OP

As for the OP. What a dumbass. O you can't find a career paying job right out of college??? Welcome to the club. Who right out of college works only 1 job and lives on their own. There are a few but that's very rare.