The Kahr Micro Pistols in .380 P380/CW380 (long version)

[gun papa]

Instead of just adding my 2 cents to another post, I have a bit more to add, so I will start my own thread on these micro guns.

In the aftermath of the IHOP shooting in Carson City, NV, (an event that NO AMOUNT of gun regulations could have prevented), my then girlfriend, now Wife, took notice. We had eaten at that IHOP not long before the murders.

Though she had guns prior to us going out, she was not a "gun person", but since the beginning of our relationship she knew that I carried a gun everywhere, was a people watcher when we were out, and did things such as selecting where I sat in restaurants. She understood after the IHOP incident that her safety was her own responsibility.

What we both learned soon after, is that carrying a gun for a women is not an easy task. Curves and clothes made concealing a gun almost impossible. She traded her Glock 19 for a Glock 26, with the same concealment results. She could not get the gun concealed.

She came to me with the concern that she would need a smaller gun or risk going unarmed due to lack of concealability on her body. We had the discussion about what changing from a larger, fighting handgun to something possibly less powerful would mean; less rounds, snappy/ painful recoil, harder to manipulate, and more difficult to shoot well. I told her that she was wanting to carry a back up gun as a primary.

The writing was on the wall. If she was going to carry all of the time, she would need to compromise on the gun, but at least she would have a gun.

She did research on a bunch of guns. After visiting several gun stores and comparing the sizes of many guns, the subcompact 9mm's, even the Kahr 9mm were too big for her to conceal. She was set on a .380 acp, and went on to research those class of guns.

I had some fears that the gun that she chose may be of a concealable size, but may recoil painfully, making her less likely to train with it. After viewing a Youtube video review of the Kahr P380 put out by Bob Mayne of the Handgun World Show, the gun became the front runner. Sadly, nowhere within a 100 miles could be shoot one of these guns prior to buying.

We took a leap of faith and purchased a Kahr P380 from GB for $550 This was prior to the release of the CW380.

She took the gun out and it was a joy to shoot. Low recoil, and accurate. She bought a holster from the Well Armed Woman, and had been shooting and carrying this gun ever since.

The gun is diminutive, I mean tiny, however, even a larger man like myself with large hands can shoot it with ease and comfortably.



The Kahr P380 features:
Locked breach browning type action
4.9" overall legnth
3.9" height
.75" wide
2.53" premium Match Grade polygonal rifled Lothar-Walther barrel.
Forged Stainless steel slide.
Polymer frame with integral stainless steel rails
About 11 ounces in weight
Dovetail steel front and rear sights
Manual slide lock
Striker fired
2 magazines




I "broke this pistol in" per the Kahr requirements and I have to say that I love this little gun. It is capable of amazing accuracy. Unlike many small guns of this type, it is comfortable to shoot for prolonged amounts of time, not the typical backup gun that after a magazine, it feels as if a firecracker has gone off in your hand. Nothing of the kind.



"$550 is a lot of money for a .380."
While $550 IS a lot of money for a .380, you do get a lot of quality for the price. The gun has forged parts and slide, it not only has sights for a small gun, it has dovetail grooves front and rear, and a match grade barrel. However, I could NEVER justify paying that much for a .380 back up gun. As much as I liked the gun and wanted one, I could not get past the price, regardless of the quality.

Good news, enter the CW380, Kahr calls the CW guns its economy brand. The Kahr CW380 can be found new hovering around the $300 mark. A price that is right in the wheelhouse for a gun of this type.

The CW380 shaves off some production costs from P380. but in my opinion, you would never notice it. The CW380 has a NON MATCH conventionally rifled barrel. BIG DEAL!. I notice no difference between the accuracy of two barrel types. Both guns are very accurate, and way more accurate than needed generally out of a gun of this type and intended use as a BUG.

The CW380 has roll marks vs. the laser cut markings of the P380.
The CW380 has more basic Slide machining contours than its more refined P series counterpart. Again, who cares.
The CW380 retains the steel rear dovetail sight just as on the P380, but the front sight is a stake in place plastic sight, sans the dovetail groove. A word on this. The sights are generally better on the P380/ CW380 than on most other guns in its class.
The front staked plastic front sight is secure, useful, and easily replaced with a steel trijicon night sight, which is where I am headed. But until then, I have no issues.

The CW380 does have a MIM slide release/takedown lever which differs from the premium P380's forged part. I have had no trouble with this part, but I am NOT A FAN of (MIM) Metal Injected Mold parts.

Other than the CW380 being just a smidge longer, almost unnoticeable from the P380, that is about it.

My CW380 seems to eat everything it is fed, reliably and accurately.









My personally custom made ankle holster for CW380




Size comparison to Glock 26 Sub Compact


Size comparison to a Charter Arms Undercover snubnose .38. Note that the Kahr is a whole barrel shorter than even the diminutive pocket carry revolver.


My Wife had purchased a holster that she likes from The Well Armed Woman.
I bought my Wife the Crimson Trace Laserguard for her P380 to assist her in practice, speed of shot delivery, low light assurance, and as a force multiplier. Unlike the laser of a gun like the Smith and Wesson Bodyguard, the laser of the Crimson Trace does not require the shooter to activate the laser by way of a button, which would be a difficult fine motor skill to use under stress. The Crimson Trace Lightguard is intuitively activated just by gripping the gun.
At defensive distances out to 30 feet, the laser is on the money or within an inch or so from point of aim. On a man sized target, anywhere you paint the laser is a hit.
The unit is so lightweight that you do not notice it. The mount is smartly done and doesn't get in the way. Run time is good, batteries supplied by the company for life, (one set a year).
The downside is that lasers are not cheap. The laser cost $178 delivered, however, it is a small price to pay for an added advantage that may save your life.

The other downside is that the holster that my Wife likes, that took several holsters to find one that worked for her, no longer fits due to the enhanced size of the gun plus laser. I remedied this by recreating the holster she likes out of Kydex to use the same type design that will accommodate the laser. All is again right with the world.

As we have owned both guns, I see no reason to buy a P380 with the CW380 now on the market. GP

[bogey1]

Great post, very informative. $550.00 OUCH

[K.C.]

OP, can you post some pics of the internals? I'm interested to see if the pitch and length of the barrels are the same and also to see if the slide stop pins are the same design. While your at it throw in pics of the recoil spring assembly as well :-).

I ask because I want to see if Kahr improved the design or just repackaged it. One other thing I'm interested in is, If you have an empty magazine in the cw380 with the slide locked back and you slowly push the follower down, does it move the mag release button on the frame as it passes?

Thanks,
K.C.


.

[FCastle88]

OP, can you post some pics of the internals? I'm interested to see if the pitch and length of the barrels are the same and also to see if the slide stop pins are the same design. While your at it throw in pics of the recoil spring assembly as well :-).

I ask because I want to see if Kahr improved the design or just repackaged it. One other thing I'm interested in is, If you have an empty magazine in the cw380 with the slide locked back and you slowly push the follower down, does it move the mag release button on the frame as it passes?

Thanks,
K.C.


.

Other than the rifling and slide machining differences he listed the P380 and CW380 are the exact same gun. Same frame, internals, etc. The slide stop is the same and can be swapped out for a machined P380 slide stop.

[Justin///M]

Nice write up! It's giving me second thoughts about selling my P380 instead of the LCP.

Justin

[K.C.]

The slide stop is the same and can be swapped out for a machined P380 slide stop.

I ask about the difference because my original slide stop pin was one solid pin, the replacement I received from kahr when I had issues was a slide stop thats pin actually spins. Does anybody know if that is whats meant by "Machined"?

I always thought MIM was metal poured into a mold, and "machined" was carved out of metal by a machine and thus stronger???

[dirksterg30]

Good write-up. I have owned or shot a P3AT, S&W Bodyguard and SIG P238. For me the P380 is hands down a better gun. The Kel-Tec P3AT has marginal sights, no slide lock and a much heavier trigger. S&W Bodyguard, somewhat better sights, very heavy trigger. SIG P238 had good sights, decent trigger, but I'm not a fan of single-action. I ended up getting a all-black P380 with night sights for a good price. Easily the most shootable small .380 for me. Talon Grips make it that much more comfortable to grip and shoot.

The only round I have had feeding issues with is the Fiocchi 95gr. FMJ. I ended up buying a .380 case gauge to check out the ammo. Turns out the Fiocchi ammo is out of spec. Everything else feeds just fine, including Winchester flat-nose FMJ's.

[FCastle88]

I ask about the difference because my original slide stop pin was one solid pin, the replacement I received from kahr when I had issues was a slide stop thats pin actually spins. Does anybody know if that is whats meant by "Machined"?

I always thought MIM was metal poured into a mold, and "machined" was carved out of metal by a machine and thus stronger???

You're correct, that's basically what it means. Though MIM isn't necessarily weaker when done well. What do you mean the pin spins? The one in my CW380 is a solid pin.

Edit: I googled it and apparently some pins rotate, some don't. Maybe they all are actually two pieces and some just fit together tighter.

[Hodgie]

OP have you measured the trigger pull with a gauge? I have owed several Kahr pistols in the past I liked the CW9 but moved it to fund other firearms. Triggers are typically around a 6-7lb pull but very crisp.

Thanks for the write up.

[gun papa]

OP have you measured the trigger pull with a gauge? I have owed several Kahr pistols in the past I liked the CW9 but moved it to fund other firearms. Triggers are typically around a 6-7lb pull but very crisp.

Thanks for the write up.

I have not measured the trigger pull. My Wife's P380 seems to be a little less than mine, and it seems to break earlier. Now if I was a bad Husband I would switch frames with her gun to get the slightly better trigger.

I have noticed that when shooting the gun, that I actually have to retrain how I shoot in order to get the maximum out of the gun for what it is intended for. example: The gun is capable of great accuracy. I find myself taking deliberate aim and slow firing the gun to try to achieve the maximum capable accuracy.

What is wrong with that, you may ask? Well, for me the gun was intended as an emergency back up gun. It is likely that I would fire half or all of the magazine quickly upon a threat. By slow, deliberate fire, I am actually not using the gun for which it is intended.
There you have it! My only gripe!