Does barrel length matter?

[Chunk]

I’m looking for a long range rifle. (up to 500 yards and further) I have two choices in mind, Savage 110FP in 300 Win. Mag. with a 24” barrel or a Savage 10FP in 308 Win with a 26” barrel. Which will be more accurate at longer distances?

[phillyd2]

Short answer is yes, size does matter. A longer barrel will be more accurate especially at such long ranges. Will you notice the difference in 2"? My guess is not if you are a average shooter like most of us. If you are doing sniper stuff, the longer the better. You are also talking about two different rifles and ammos. I can't help much with which rifle is better (others can post their thoughts) but if it was me I would stick with the .308 even if just for availability alone as it is a NATO round and plentiful compared to the .300

What will you be doing at such long ranges and powerful rounds? Zombie hunting?

[Chunk]

I have access to a friends private range that has steel targets at 100, 200, 300and 600 yards. Also the Southfork Rifle club has out to 500m and plans in the works to go out to 1000. The club is only a mile from my parents. I thought when I went to visit them I might get some trigger time in too.

[aubie515]

The longer barrel length will offer you faster speeds...normally 100FPS faster per inch. I have two 10FPs and I would suggest the .308 because of the variety of good factory ammo. Brass is a lot cheaper versus 300 Win Mag...less powder...etc etc. You should consider all cost factors before you make the purchase. I am not a fan of LA, so my choice would be .308 all the way. If you go .308...try Black Hills 168gr or 175 gr match ammo...I feel that it is more consistent versus Federal Gold Medal Match. I feel that caliber choice is more important versus length of the barrel and 2" is not going to make that much of a difference IMO.

[Tomcat088]

The others posting here have brought up some great points. 2" of barrel will make a difference in several things. Because the barrel is longer, the bullet stays in the barrel longer, meaning more pressure can build up behind the bullet to push it faster. Also an advantage of using a longer barrel is that you can use a slower burning powder, so that it burns a bit more consistently, but you get slightly faster bullet speeds than the shorter barrel. You should also consider that a longer barreled gun is harder to store, carry, and is heavier. In terms of "sniping", most snipers like to carry as long of a barrel as they can that is practical, usually around 24", because it results in less muzzle flash which could give away their position. Barrel length can also drastically affect the balance of a gun and how it handles in recoil, which can affect follow up shots a great deal.

On action choice and long distance is where aubie and I differ slightly in preference, which is all it really is. I very much enjoy shooting the .300 winmag, and own a couple. I would say that up to 800 meters, the .308 and .300 are almost identical in accuracy, with the .308 having the benefit of WAY less recoil. Out at 1,000 meters, which most people don't shoot, I do favor the .300 winmag because in ballistical terms it shoots flatter. For years and years snipers have used the .308 at that distance and you can use it at that, but I just prefer the .300 winmag at that distance. Some people like to shoot the 7mm mag, but I have found it to be less accurate at 1,000 meters than the .300, with only slightly less recoil. So I would consider the 7mm mag an 800 Meter gun, and would probably recommend the .308 if that's the distance you'd prefer to shoot at.

Aubie brought up many great points. The .300 winmag will use alot more powder if you're reloading, and brass costs alot more. Also, the .300 winmag suffers from overbore, so the extra powder you put it, really doesn't yield that much more FPS, but enough to make a difference and fire a heavier projectile. It is much easier and cheaper to find good .308 ammo and also you can purchase some of the cheaper stuff in bulk. When long distance shooting, I don't shoot matchgrade ammo, I reload, so I really can't offer much suggestions between the factory differences on .300 winmag ammo.

If you do go with the .300, I prefer to shoot a 180 grain nosler ballistic tip, as I've found it to have good expansion at up to 1,000 meters, and the heavier bullet fights against wind drift, which will be your main foe at those distances. Also if you're looking at the .300, you might consider the .300 WSM (winchester short magnum). Keep in mind these cartridges can be VERY hard to find compared to others, and if you're just trying to buy them any place, you might have trouble. If you reload then you won't run into this problem so much. In my experiences and some of the reviews I've seen, it has slightly better accuracy over the winmag because the primer flash initially lights more of the powder, and also allows more pressure to build up in the casing before the bullet exits, leading to more consistency. At long distance shooting this is what you're looking for and it can make a difference. Keep in mind though that the WSM can be an unsightly cartridge, it's pretty fat and ugly, and hard to find. Anyway, just wanted to throw out some options.

[TonyF]

You've received allot of good advice but one thing that hasn't been mentioned about the magnum calibers is accelerated throat erosion. I've heard of 300 win mag, etc needing new barrels in as few as a 1000 rounds. I'd agree a .308 is a better all around choice.

[JayBell]

also, the thicker the barrel, less long range diversion in shot pattern due to barrel harmnics and such.
this is due to barrel stiffness.

wana watch something funny, watch a guy shooting a 308 PSS or something where the barrel is highly freefloated...after each shot, watch the barrel vibrate all over:-)

If I want to shoot long range, i use my 50 cal Serbu BFG, or my HS Precision takedown in 300WM

[Spectre6]

Heres all the info:

308 is used by evryone (army, marines, police...), so data for the ballistics are very, VERY well known. Its a light recoiling round, and very consistant. Match ammo is very readily available and its effective to 800 (or further.. but its really lobbing). Its reletively slow compared to alot of rounds, which makes adjusting for range more of a chore. Its also cheap and easy to reload.

300 Winmag is a beast of a round. It can throw heavy projectiles very fast and very far. 1000 yards is definatly within reach. Because of the velocity and wieght of the projectile, the ballistics are very flat and the time to target is shorter, also bucks the wind nicely. Downsides are the recoil is pretty heavy, it will beat you up. Its also an expensive round, with almost twice as much powder as the 308. Some special forces use it as a sniper round, but its not nearly as common as 308. Its also a belted case, which makes it a little more tricky to reload, but not bad. Barrel life is also shorter.

Longer barrel is really dependant on the round you are firing. With 308, you wont see much of a difference between 24 and 26. Scince the powder used in a 308 is fairly fast burning, the longer barrel cant make *much* more use of it.. most of the powder is burned off before it leaves the barrel.

With 300WM, you will definatly see a significant increase in FPS with a longer barrel. Its a slow burning powder, so a longer barrel lets the pressure keep building and makes the most use of it.

If your new to shooting, go with a 308. If you dont mind the recoil, and you want an absolute cannon, go all the way with the 300.

[djak]

Actually, the information you guys are giving about barrel length is not that accurate. Ironic huh?

The physics behind shooting a bullet have many variables. Yes, long barrel length gives higher velocities, which affects external ballistics only. The faster the bullet can reach its' target, the less wind can impact it. Also, the horizontal force (shooting the bullet downrange) is magnified against the vertical force (gravity), so you shoot flatter.

But what truely causes accuracy in a rifle, assuming the remaining internal ballistics remain constant, is the harmonics of the barrel. The barrel will vibrate almost like a guitar string. What you want for accuracy is for the barrel to emulate a simple harmonic motion. What this means is that the muzzle will be in the same exact place every time when the bullet exits and since a guitar string is attached, it will, but the muzzle of a rifle can go anywhere. This is why loads with different amount of powder in them are not accurate (minus the vertical stringing). The barrel is exerted under different amounts of stress. Try flicking a string with different force and you will understand what I mean.

The above guitar emulation of the barrel with simple harmonics means that the barrel acts like a "standing wave" and the amount of work done is zero, which is a GOOD thing.

To increase your accuracy at long ranges, have a stiff metal (ie stainless), or a thicker barrel. Also, do you understand lock time? There is also what I call barrel time. That is the time it takes for a round to exit the barrel. The longer amount of time a round is in the barrel, the more likely you will change the direction of exit from the original direction. Just like with a firing pin's lock time.

Now, for advantages of longer barrels..... the increased velocity. Not only as I said before about the horizontal component of force, you also have to recognize different air pressure barriers. The most important is the 1st sound barrier. If a bullet is exiting at that speed, or tries to stablize within that realm, you will have serious accuracy issues.

A good example is the 17 Mach 2 (obviously exiting the muzzle at mach 2). It's velocity exiting the muzzle never allows the bullet to "grab" good air which reduces accuracy (remember you will only shoot this round out to 100m "effectively"). Take this idea and apply it to powerful center fires. A 7.62 by 51mm becomes "uneffective" at a range of about 800 meters. This is because it's velocity enters the sound barrier, unstablizing the round, not because of a lack of energy. You can increase this range by increasing muzzle velocity or you can ruin accuracy by increasing a velocity into this barrier, so choose wisely.

I shoot a savage 112 with a kreiger 1.25" straight barrel at 20" long. It will out now out shoot the 24" barrel that originally came on it (Also a excellent barrel). But since I do not care about shooting past 500 yds with this particular rifle, I gave up velocity for strength while keeping the weight of the barrel down and trying to reach that perfect simple harmonic, and because I shoot 115 gr rounds with a very high BC, I still shoot very flat out to my intended ranges.

By the way, online I have seen kits that will "bed" your barrel at different points. What it is looks like a cleaning rod on a SKS (kept under the barrel), but what is "does" is allow you to tune the bedding by twisting this rod. I guess it moves a bedding material up and down the channel of the stock. Idea is good, don't know about its' engineering though.

[idplmbr]

Hey guys, Im looking to start doing long range shooting and am considering what length of barrel to start with. I am looking to shoot as far as possible and after looking at your forum, most of you agree that a .308 is effective out to 800 meters. I am considering a Remington 700 XCR Target Tactical in .308. My barrel options are 20" or 26". I like the decreased weight of the 20" (almost a pound less) but am wondering what everyone thinks about overall performance. Is a 20" barrel effective at hitting my target ranges or would a 26" be better? Does anyone have any other recommendations for a different gun? I have heard that the 700's are pretty bulletproof. After owning them for hunting purposes I have never had a problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.