Getting an FFL License?

[Seeking_Coyotes]

I am thinking of getting my FFL license to buy and sell firearms. Can anyone give me any tips on how I go about getting my license, any pitfalls to avoid, considerations, costs, etc.

[ExFlyinguy]

I watched this youtube video when I was considering doing the same. I have not pursued it any further, but the video seemed very helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4eS5MOBtdM

Hope that is a help to you.

[WCMG]

FFL process: this started as a short email then I kept remembering things.

1. The main reason people get turned down for an FFL is local zoning. Verify with your county sheriff that they allow FFL based businesses. If not, then you are done. For instance, Pittsburgh PA does NOT allow FFL*s to be licensed in the entire city limits. Many HOA*s do not allow them. Are you getting an FFL to transfer/sell guns at your home or are you going to have a store front. No matter where, you need to get a letter from your zoning board or in my case a letter from the township secretary since we don*t have zoning, stating something like, *Home based FFL businesses are allowed in West Finley Township* Mr Barton has our permission to operate an FFL based business out of his residency.* Before you get approved, the BATF will call them to verify, so the letter speeds things up. During your place of business inspection by the BATF, they will ask for this letter.

2. I got a DBA for *Washington County Guns and Suppressors LLC* owned solely by my other business LLC. During your place of business inspection by the BATF, they will ask for this documentation. Site note: I do not have an FFL, my other business does. So if I personally buy a gun from Cabalas, then Cabalas MUST do a background check on me. If I walk in and buy one under my LLC, I just show my license and walk out with it, BUT I then must enter that weapon into my BATF logbook within 24 hours, and if I later sell that weapon to myself, I must run a background check on MYSELF that transfers the weapon out of the LLC into my personal possession, which is also logged. Know the rules.

3. Get an EIN number if you don*t already have one. I*m using the one from the LLC. During your place of business inspection by the BATF, they will ask for this documentation.

4. Apply for a state sales tax license in the DBA name. During your place of business inspection by the BATF, they will ask for this documentation.

5. Write up a short Business Plan, mine was only 3 pages. I*ll send you a copy if you get this far. During your place of business inspection by the BATF, they may ask for this documentation, mine didn*t.

6. Get finger printed on official ATF finger print cards. You need this for the application. I want down to the Washington County Booking and ask them to do it. Cost like $10 for two.

7. Get 2 passport photos taken. You need this for the application.

8. Fill out and mail these forms with your finger print cards, photos, etc. 2nd most common reason to get delayed is filling out these forms wrong.

atf-f-5310-12.pdf
atf-f-5330-20.pdf
atf-f-5300-42.pdf

9. If there are no problems with your application, within 4 weeks of mailing it you will get a phone call from the BATF to setup an inspection with an *inspector*. They normally last 3 to 4 hours, mine lasted 1:50 mainly because I already studied all the regulations so not much training for him to do and that is what exactly this is, once you get an inspection, it*s almost a done deal that you will get approved, they are at your house to make sure you are not a wackjob and that you understand all the regulations.

10. After that, wait about 2 to 4 weeks for your FFL to arrive in the mail.

11. Once your FFL arrives, now you have to comply with state laws, in PA that means you have to get a PA License to Sell Firearms from the county Sheriff.

12. Once you get your PA license, then you have to sign up and get approved to run background checks on people on the PICS system *PA Instant Check System*.

13. Once your get steps 1 through 12 completed, then you can request the needed unique PICS paperwork from the State Police which takes up to 3 weeks to get, and now you are ready to transfer weapons!!!

14. Get drunk.

[omgur2]

Yea I thought about it to, lots of bargains to be found at auctions and stuff. Then I read exactly what was posted above and said whoa! He did however fail to mention I believe you need a dedicated safe for your business. I've decided to move coward with my general idea but with out the FFL. I do wish you good luck.

[Seeking_Coyotes]

I appreciate the help...thank you!

[WCMG]

Yea I thought about it to, lots of bargains to be found at auctions and stuff. Then I read exactly what was posted above and said whoa! He did however fail to mention I believe you need a dedicated safe for your business. I've decided to move coward with my general idea but with out the FFL. I do wish you good luck.

You don't need a safe, but you do need to have a "secure dedicated area" to store inventoried firearms that can be easily distinguished from personal firearms.

We have a safe, well actually two of them, one for smaller items (suppressors and handguns) and a larger one for everything else, but it's not a requirement. I keep all my personal firearms in those safes with a tag that says "Personal Firearm" plus I keep a separate A&D book for personal items. All business firearms have a tag that says, "Business Firearm" with the corresponding A&D line number.

[Seeking_Coyotes]

Wow...that is involved! Yikes. If you are approved and operate out of your house through the internet, what does the ATF inspector want to see in your house since it is not a storefront where people shop?

Would the township need to have an existing law against ffl dealers of if you are the first could they decide they don't want anyone selling guns and then just pass some kind of resolution?

[WCMG]

Wow...that is involved! Yikes. If you are approved and operate out of your house through the internet, what does the ATF inspector want to see in your house since it is not a storefront where people shop?

Would the township need to have an existing law against ffl dealers of if you are the first could they decide they don't want anyone selling guns and then just pass some kind of resolution?

The ATF wants to see exactly the same things they would see at a brick-N-mortar store, the ATF does not see the difference, remember you are only allowed to get an FFL if you are doing it to make money, so you are a business, doesn't matter if you are a big box store or kitchen-table dealer, the rules are the same. During the required ATF inspections they want to see the "Youth Handgun Safety Act Notice" poster on display, your FFL on display, your sales tax license on display, any required business licenses on display, they want to inspect your "place of business", which could be your couch or kitchen table, they want to inspect your "secure area" and inventory your firearms against your A&D book, they want to review and nit-pick your 4473s for any mistakes, do you have gun locks available for customer to purchase, do you have the little yellow youth handgun pamphlets to give to each customer who you transfer a handgun too, etc, etc, etc.

Yes, townships pass laws all the time that turn once legal activities into illegal activities, happens every day. Same with HOA's. The biggest enemy of home-based FFL's is to much foot traffic for transfers, at what point are you a store and need to start following brick-n-mortar rules for parking, handicap access, etc, etc, etc. Will your neighbors complain to the zoning board, etc.

For me, the tedious part of being an FFL is following all the rules and the ATF inspections, plus all the damn paperwork. When I transfer a handgun, I'm required to file 3 different forms (ATF 4473, PA SP4-113, PA SP4-134).

So, what does all this really mean? There are tens of thousands of FFL's in the US and many work out of their homes legally and without trouble, but my point to all of this is this, it's a business with many rules (Federal, State, County, Local) that must be followed to the letter so getting an FFL should not be taken lightly. If you love guns, don't have a problem with paperwork, live in an area that allows home-based FFL's, feel it's okay for the ATF to inspect your "place of business" once a year, and can follow the many rules, it's fun as hell being an FFL especially if you take the next step and get an SOT and start working with machine guns, SBR, SBS, and suppressors. If you are getting into it to make a lot of money, like any business, there is a lot of competition and the margins are thin.

[bug]

The ATF wants to see exactly the same things they would see at a brick-N-mortar store, the ATF does not see the difference, remember you are only allowed to get an FFL if you are doing it to make money, so you are a business, doesn't matter if you are a big box store or kitchen-table dealer, the rules are the same. During the required ATF inspections they want to see the "Youth Handgun Safety Act Notice" poster on display, your FFL on display, your sales tax license on display, any required business licenses on display, they want to inspect your "place of business", which could be your couch or kitchen table, they want to inspect your "secure area" and inventory your firearms against your A&D book, they want to review and nit-pick your 4473s for any mistakes, do you have gun locks available for customer to purchase, do you have the little yellow youth handgun pamphlets to give to each customer who you transfer a handgun too, etc, etc, etc.

Yes, townships pass laws all the time that turn once legal activities into illegal activities, happens every day. Same with HOA's. The biggest enemy of home-based FFL's is to much foot traffic for transfers, at what point are you a store and need to start following brick-n-mortar rules for parking, handicap access, etc, etc, etc. Will your neighbors complain to the zoning board, etc.

For me, the tedious part of being an FFL is following all the rules and the ATF inspections, plus all the damn paperwork. When I transfer a handgun, I'm required to file 3 different forms (ATF 4473, PA SP4-113, PA SP4-134).

So, what does all this really mean? There are tens of thousands of FFL's in the US and many work out of their homes legally and without trouble, but my point to all of this is this, it's a business with many rules (Federal, State, County, Local) that must be followed to the letter so getting an FFL should not be taken lightly. If you love guns, don't have a problem with paperwork, live in an area that allows home-based FFL's, feel it's okay for the ATF to inspect your "place of business" once a year, and can follow the many rules, it's fun as hell being an FFL especially if you take the next step and get an SOT and start working with machine guns, SBR, SBS, and suppressors. If you are getting into it to make a lot of money, like any business, there is a lot of competition and the margins are thin.

You have provided one of the best answers I've ever seen to the age old question, "Should I get an FFL?" It should be a pinned topic. Here and on many other boards. Thank you.

Bob D

[LawDawg]

I obtained my FFL at the beginning of this year and have to admit it was a lot of work from start to finish (or I should say more than I expected). WCGS hit the nail on the head with his posts. Excellent post WCGS! By the time I was finished paying permits, licenses, other fees and stuff needed to get my office in shape, I had invested roughly $2,500. I'm enjoying my new business but as stated above, a lot of competition and thin profit margins. Good luck on your endeavor!