Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Hopewell, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    Default Re: Open Carry with LTCF Illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch10mm View Post
    Ya'll need to quit getting hung up on LTCF, CCP, CCW and what not. We are not drafting legislation in our conversations with people. My concern is that it makes us look less knowledgable than we are.
    I partially agree, Mitch, with the exception being that the problem really lies in the fact that the people who TYPICALLY refer to it as a CCP/CCW are the ones that are telling us that, because we have it, it's required that we conceal because it's a Conceal Carry Permit. Off the top of my head, I can't specifically remember any instances where a person who properly referred to it as a LTCF was also stating we are required to conceal. Those people who call it what it actually is, a License to Carry a Firearm, are the ones who typically understand that it's much more than a "conceal carry permit."
    Obligatory IANAL!

    Vi veri veniversum vivus vici
    (By the power of truth, I while living have conquered the universe)

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    Parkesburg, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Open Carry with LTCF Illegal?

    Spoke with Sheriff Welsh on the phone a short bit ago. It was a great pleasure talking with her. She was very passionate about the fact that PA law gives us the right to open carry. She said no officer has any right to even question us unless we are doing something wrong, or trying to carry concealed or in a car. She said that her and her deputies are all aware of the law and make sure they do their best to keep all the local police departments informed on our right to open carry. I asked what to do if a LEO questions me and her response was to calmly and respectfully inform them they do not have a right to question you regarding your gun and if they doubt you to call their local police chief to confirm. I also reached out to my local state rep who replied along the same lines. Do have to say I was very happy in my dealings with both of them.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Lancaster, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Open Carry with LTCF Illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingjunkie View Post
    I partially agree, Mitch, with the exception being that the problem really lies in the fact that the people who TYPICALLY refer to it as a CCP/CCW are the ones that are telling us that, because we have it, it's required that we conceal because it's a Conceal Carry Permit. Off the top of my head, I can't specifically remember any instances where a person who properly referred to it as a LTCF was also stating we are required to conceal. Those people who call it what it actually is, a License to Carry a Firearm, are the ones who typically understand that it's much more than a "conceal carry permit."
    I understand. I correct people when in discussion with those new to guns or carry etc. I would expect those in authority or issuing or enforcing would use proper terminology. Depending on the conversation in my opinion it can become a "Gotcha" or dismissive attitude. Become one of those guys and the dialogue loses it's credibility or impact. Jmo

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    West Chester, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Open Carry with LTCF Illegal?

    Question:

    Regarding "LICENSING EXEMPTIONS UNDER SECTION 6106"
    (2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of
    the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.
    (3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized
    to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this
    Commonwealth.

    Would the above apply to the USMC League members?

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Phila, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Open Carry with LTCF Illegal?

    I doubt it. League members are not on duty.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Bucks County, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Open Carry with LTCF Illegal?

    No, and it also doesn't apply to Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines on duty or NG/ANG members on Federal active duty UNLESS their MAJCOM designates them as needing to carry to perform their jobs. I ran into this while I was AD in California. Some barracks lawyer had convinced the Squadron Fool, an E-2 that couldn't tie his own shoes properly, that California law allowed him to carry anywhere he wanted because he is an active duty member of the U.S. Military and therefore EXEMPT from all civilian laws. I counseled him that he was mistaken and that I would personally end his career if I caught him carrying without proper documents again.

    I didn't have to do anything. He went to the local Mall and a local cop saw the gun. End of freedom for Airman Dipshit!

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Harrisburg area, Pennsylvania
    (Dauphin County)
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    Default Re: Open Carry with LTCF Illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manxdriver View Post
    No, and it also doesn't apply to Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines on duty or NG/ANG members on Federal active duty UNLESS their MAJCOM designates them as needing to carry to perform their jobs. I ran into this while I was AD in California. Some barracks lawyer had convinced the Squadron Fool, an E-2 that couldn't tie his own shoes properly, that California law allowed him to carry anywhere he wanted because he is an active duty member of the U.S. Military and therefore EXEMPT from all civilian laws. I counseled him that he was mistaken and that I would personally end his career if I caught him carrying without proper documents again.

    I didn't have to do anything. He went to the local Mall and a local cop saw the gun. End of freedom for Airman Dipshit!
    California law may say that, but PA law does not. The limitation under PA law is simply "when on duty".

    Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.
    I am not a lawyer. Nothing I say or write is legal advice.

  8. #38
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    Nov 2011
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    Bucks County, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Open Carry with LTCF Illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by twency View Post
    California law may say that, but PA law does not. The limitation under PA law is simply "when on duty".
    I fully agree with what you just posted BUT, ( I assume here that you are not a Veteran, and that is NOT a 'judgment' on my part against you, merely an observation) A member of the US Military (any branch or component) will not be carrying a weapon on duty UNLESS his MAJCOM has deemed 'weapons necessary to fulfill his duties'. PERIOD! Get caught with a weapon when on duty, or on Base/Post/Fort/Port/Facility/Whatever and it isn't part of your job requirement to have it, and you are in for a SERIOUS BAD TIME!!!

    So, if you couple the law you posted, with STANDING MILITARY ORDERS AND PROTOCOLS you arrive at what I said initially and that is: unless your job requires it, you ain't gonna have it, AND your job better damn well call for live ammo too, or you ain't gonna have that either!!

    Ever notice how many folks get shot up during these Ft. Hood type shootings? Know why? I just told you why!

    Any Veteran here can confirm this for you.

  9. #39
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    Nov 2011
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    Bucks County, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Open Carry with LTCF Illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tootie View Post
    This is easy. Ask them to show you the Statute that says that. Or better yet any Statute that mentions Open Carry anywhere besides Philly. Challenge their incorrect information to the end.

    It is a License to Carry a Firearm (LTCF) NOT a Concealed Carry Permit (CCP).

    Also, have them read the PA Constitution, Article 1, Section 21....The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.
    Even better, take out your LTCF and challenge them to show you the word "concealed" anywhere on it!

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Monroe, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: Open Carry with LTCF Illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manxdriver View Post
    Even better, take out your LTCF and challenge them to show you the word "concealed" anywhere on it!
    That's to easy. I want to make them to work for their knowledge. The harder it is for them, the better they'll remember the information.

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