Pittsburgh Gun Show - Monroeville, PA (4/26 & 4/27)

[wt101]

Noah,I think you forgot to mention the pickle vendor?

[Neo31rex31]

1, "Prices are gouging"
2, "Not any good deals"
3, "Can't find the deal I want"

The above 3 are all either found or surmised here in this thread.

I challenge you to look at this from a different angle, perhaps that of a vender?

1, $600+ Table Setup Fees (My average is around $650)
2, $100-$200+ in Fuel Costs (My Average is about $200)
3, 5+ hours setup/teardown time (My average is about 6)
4, $150+ Hotel Fees (My average is about $150)
5, + or - $50 Food expenses (My average is about $50 for [2x] People)
6, wear and tear on vehicles/trailers (I have to tote everything around in a 34' trailer with an F-350)
7, Travel time too and from shows (sometimes 10-14 hours round trip for me)

Keep in mind that venders also can't give stuff away, and walk out with a supporting profit for income. (after we get a rusted pipe shoved up our ass in taxes too)

We understand that you come in for deals, however you also need to understand that we can have $1000+ in expenses per weekend that we need to cover before we even get the chance to take a profit.

[Hawk]

Note: This post not directed to anyone in particular.

Being in the small time "gun and accessories" business is rarely going to make anyone rich. Personally, I think 90% of the gun show vendors out there are just trying to turn a hobby (they love) into a business. Problem is that many do not have the skill set to be successful at it.

[Mingus333]

Note: This post not directed to anyone in particular.

Being in the small time "gun and accessories" business is rarely going to make anyone rich. Personally, I think 90% of the gun show vendors out there are just trying to turn a hobby (they love) into a business. Problem is that many do not have the skill set to be successful at it.

You are correct that there have been the Hobby or clean out my closet folks at Gun Shows over the years. However currently there is a BIG shift in this. Those folks are going away slowly and since they were not concerned or possibly couldn't even remember what they paid for a particular piece...the gun show was a "wheel and deal" mart. Now what you have are REAL FT business owners. Some trying to get out of the rat race and some recovering from our AWESOME presidents unemployment-fest. Point is in this day and age you can't just open a shop. It cost WAY too much and with the current emotional and political climate, try to get a landlord to rent to a GUN Shop. lmao...I've had that conversation. No currently we have to do all of our business online an at the gun shows. We need to run a legit business and make all of our revenue in only TWO days each week and not even 52 weeks a year. So we are in the midst of what people (including me with my dad and granddad) remember gun shows to be and what they are becoming. They are becoming more retail business' at fair prices...but what you get is having 50 vendors to choose from in one room...and no shipping on Ammo. (That's a deal in itself!) ;-) I remember getting cheap rifles with my granddad...but now I am a small business owner...The expenses listed above are real and I think a lot of people would be surprised that our COST on firearms is not as low as you think. Shop around...American Capitalism and competition still exists...If someone is too high...walk to the next table and they will learn.

Good conversation guys! See you at the next one.

[Hawk]

On the flip side.

The local Pittsburgh gun shows have the look and feel of a flea market. I'm sure many people who attend these shows go in thinking it's nothing more than a flea market of gun stuff. They come in expecting deals at every table. They won't hesitate to make offers below fair market value (even for NIB items) and walk if the vendor says they can't do it.

Personally, I go to these things just to look around, not necessarily looking to find any big deals, if I see something I need/want at a fair price I buy it.

I went to a antique show once at Meadowland race track. Lots of nice stuff, decent prices, but no one was buying. I asked a vendor how it was going and he said "If it wasn't for all the cheapskates we would be doing OK".

[nfafan]

^^^ Right there is the whole problem - the internet.

Every single dealer in the USA is expected to match, or beat the lowest price that can be found online, or they are "gouging" bastages.

I'd imagine "the internet" killed a lot of gun shops over the years.

You can almost go back to the day when Shotgun News became a public publication. Lots of folks came to the PGCA shows with SGNs rolled up in their back pockets wanting a matching deal.. Our rule was "SGN" plus 10%.

[Solaran_X]

^^^ Right there is the whole problem - the internet.

Every single dealer in the USA is expected to match, or beat the lowest price that can be found online, or they are "gouging" bastages.

I'd imagine "the internet" killed a lot of gun shops over the years.

Stores need to at least be competitive with internet dealers like CDNN.

I want a Sig Sauer P226 Mk 25. CDNN sells it for $849.99. Free shipping to a FFL of my choice, and no tax. I have a FFL who will receive and transfer internet purchases for $25. So that's a flat $874.99 for a Sig Sauer 226 Mk 25.

I saw the same pistol in Gander Mountain. $1,199.99. Plus 6% sales tax and the $5 PICS fee. $1,275.94 after all is said and done.

So I would be paying $400.95 more to get the pistol in person at Gander Mountain for $1,275.94 versus buying it online for $849.99 tax free and shipped for free to my FFL who would transfer it to me for $25.

Why should I be expected to pay over $400 more for the same gun?

Stores need to be willing to meet people halfway. If Gander Mountain would've offered me the P226 for $900 plus tax, I would've bought it for the convenience of not going to my FFL after work on day. But they refused to budge from $1,199.99 for the gun. And the slight inconvenience of having to go to my FFL after work isn't worth paying over $400 to avoid.

I'm not saying stores should price match, but they need to be open to coming down in price somewhat if a person is interested in a gun and their marked price is ~50% higher than the person can get the same gun for online.

[DavidTM]

Stores need to at least be competitive with internet dealers like CDNN.

I want a Sig Sauer P226 Mk 25. CDNN sells it for $849.99. Free shipping to a FFL of my choice, and no tax. I have a FFL who will receive and transfer internet purchases for $25. So that's a flat $874.99 for a Sig Sauer 226 Mk 25.

I saw the same pistol in Gander Mountain. $1,199.99. Plus 6% sales tax and the $5 PICS fee. $1,275.94 after all is said and done.

So I would be paying $400.95 more to get the pistol in person at Gander Mountain for $1,275.94 versus buying it online for $849.99 tax free and shipped for free to my FFL who would transfer it to me for $25.

Why should I be expected to pay over $400 more for the same gun?

Well, let's analyze your post.

#1- Your using Gander as a comp. For new guns, Gander is one of higher handgun retailer's out there. Used is a different matter, but new handguns, just look elsewhere....anywhere....and you will find a better price.

#2-When you buy a gun over the "net" and have it shipped to your FFL, your don't "escape" the responsibility for the sales tax. YOU are still required to pay the sales tax. The way the current law is written your local FFL is not required to collect sales tax on the item because he\she did not actually sell the item. But that does not relieve you of reporting and paying the tax. Believe me, the State of Pa. is fully aware of this issue and at some point in the near future will derive a method to chase down the non-payors. And remember, if you have not filed a "use tax" form, you have not started any three-year statute of limitations for the look back period. So, the tax of $50 for non Allegheny residents and $60 for Allegheny residents could come back to bite you....plus interest and penalties.

This does close the price spread a little.

Dave

[Solaran_X]

Well, let's analyze your post.

#1- Your using Gander as a comp. For new guns, Gander is one of higher handgun retailer's out there. Used is a different matter, but new handguns, just look elsewhere....anywhere....and you will find a better price.

#2-When you buy a gun over the "net" and have it shipped to your FFL, your don't "escape" the responsibility for the sales tax. YOU are still required to pay the sales tax. The way the current law is written your local FFL is not required to collect sales tax on the item because he\she did not actually sell the item. But that does not relieve you of reporting and paying the tax. Believe me, the State of Pa. is fully aware of this issue and at some point in the near future will derive a method to chase down the non-payors. And remember, if you have not filed a "use tax" form, you have not started any three-year statute of limitations for the look back period. So, the tax of $50 for non Allegheny residents and $60 for Allegheny residents could come back to bite you....plus interest and penalties.

This does close the price spread a little.

Dave

All of that still doesn't change the fact this is 2014, not 1984 or even 1994.. Businesses aren't just competing with the business down the street or across town. Businesses are competing with businesses across the country or businesses that exist solely on the Internet.

A modern business shouldn't expect much if it lacks a price matching policy or has a price matching policy that only recognizes local B&M shops.

If you got a pistol for $1,100 or $1,200 and a customer is interested in it, and can prove another retailer online has the exact same pistol in stock for significantly less...the retailer would be wise to come down a bit to get the sale instead of just letting the customer walk and hoping on a more gullible customer to come by (and lets face it, there are a lot of gullible customers online who will drop $1,000+ on a gun without researching for the best price online).

[DavidTM]

A modern business shouldn't expect much if it lacks a price matching policy or has a price matching policy that only recognizes local B&M shops.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. But your local dealer (local B&M as you say) has something that your on-line "store" doesn't. It has a physical building to maintain, property taxes on said building, insurance, maintenance, heat, air conditioning, fixtures, on and on and on.

Where as the on-line store has.....software? A web site? A room in back with the inventory and maybe 4 people to man the phones. Hey....they could do this out of their garage.....and probably are doing it out of their garage. How else do you think they can cut the price so low?

OTOH, your local guy can let you hold the firearm, let you hold other firearms to compare them, give you the "skinny" on what other customers have said about them, tell you what his return rate has been. Do you pay for this? Yes. Is it worth it? To some it is. To some it's not. But, when you buy three or four guns that you are trading in or selling in 6 months because you don't like the performance, and your selling 'em at a loss.....tell me what your savings are now?

The local shops are getting squeezed. I've watched a few local's close. I've watched a few local's expand and go right out to "service and have available product for comparison to hold" the on line dealers in order to compete. These local guys are doing a darn good job. Are their (local) customers paying more in the long run? I doubt it when they keep their firearms forever.

Dave