Shooting at Fort Hood, Texas

[nfafan]

guns in the barraks/squad bays? NO FUCKING WAY base housing? ok I also dont see a problem with carry on "open bases" (like fort indian town gap) and at no time carrying during "training excersizes" we had a guy blow up an m16 when he fired a live round into the blankfiring adapter (tell me how you dont notice a live round mixed in with blanks)

We had to lock our guns away with the base armory in the Nixon days. Stored a lot of guns for my buds when I had an off-base apartment.

Once I was in Base housing, well I know of a base cop that kept his issue gun at home, me - no ask, no tell.

[nfafan]

Two words: Bill Clinton

At least as far back as Nixon.

[Big77]

we had a guy blow up an m16 when he fired a live round into the blankfiring adapter (tell me how you dont notice a live round mixed in with blanks)

I just play call of duty but why would you EVER mix live rounds with blanks in the first place? I understand he's stupid to load it, but why not assume all are stupid; and separate the live/blank rounds before the shooting?

[nfafan]

Nobody thought to undo all the Clinton imposed anti gun policies during the Bush years?

Sadly, not in either of GeeeeDubs terms.

He didn't undo his Daddy's 922R shit either. Or dismantle the BATF created under Nixon.

Real friend of the 2A he was. Think he spends his time doing paint-by-numbers now.

[nfafan]

Dennis is right. While I whole heartedly support every US citizen having access to personal firearms to defend themselves, the environment on a military base is unique. Having every Joe allowed to store his personal weapon in his room or carry in uniform has led to bigger problems in the past. When I first enlisted in the 80s some bases allowed troops to keep personal firearms. Negligent discharges, injuries, suicides, and gun related domestic violence were problems to a situation that has no perfect solution.

Many here have said they can't believe this can happen on a place where people are trained to handle firearms. Keep in mind the majority of the force are NOT combat arms professions. Most of our troops are support personnel (medics, drivers, clerks, instructors, IT personnel, etc...) Of those that are trained to kill the enemy as their primary job, they are only hands-on with their weapon (s) 24/7 when deployed to a combat zone. The time they spend stateside is primarily dedicated to training and maintenance on hundreds of other items they use on a regular basis. In many cases a soldier in the US will fire his weapon twice a year for mandatory range qualification... and that's it! I am sure some will say that is a shame and it needs to be more often but keep in mind ammo for a million troop’s costs billions. Your complaints will be contradicted when you want to bash the next defense spending bill and you see how many 5.56 rounds are purchased.

How can this happen on a "closed facility"? Fences and gates are designed to slow the threat. They are not designed to stop the threat. Do you know what the threat is? It is not the man with a gun. The threat by Physical Security and Antiterrorism regulation definitions is the car bomb. The world has yet to design a fence that can't be climbed or cut. In this case the shooter probably drove on Ft Hood with the weapon in the car. If he showed NO sign of suspicious activity the gate security personnel have no reason to search his vehicle. This topic brings up another contradiction. I see daily posts of Philadelphia PD conducting what are described as illegal searches. If you think the guards should search every vehicle you are asking for what PPD is already trying to provide. If you were to drive onto Carlisle Barracks for their annual open house would you happily agree to have your vehicle searched? I know I wouldn't and I'm in uniform when I come and go.

Enough ranting. I am just trying to point out that every location these shootings happen is unique. Military base, public school, street corner... they are all different. There is no magic band aid that will solve the issue. Most if not all of the solutions at hand are unpopular and encroach on our other rights.

Q-For-Truth

[USMC3531]

I just play call of duty but why would you EVER mix live rounds with blanks in the first place? I understand he's stupid to load it, but why not assume all are stupid; and separate the live/blank rounds before the shooting?

"nobody knows" how that 1 live round got in there, he could have smuggled it from the range or found it somewhere. It caused an immediate emergency standdown and we had to gather up all blanks and 3 of us go through every one of them to check for more live rounds. I could tell stories of all the stupid stuff that went on during "down time" when everyone got bored

[nfafan]

The founding fathers didn't foresee a large standing Army so they couldn't have written anything that would have helped. A Military unit wouldn't fare well if it mirrored the populace in rights and freedoms

Absofreakinglootley.

The elected officials of the day had to be dragged kicking and screaming to pony up money to build 3 frigates (USS Constitution being one of them) to combat the Barbary Pirates that were holding our commerce hostage.

They absolutely DID NOT WANT a large or powerful military after having just thrown out the Brits.

[USMC3531]

We had to lock our guns away with the base armory in the Nixon days. Stored a lot of guns for my buds when I had an off-base apartment.

Once I was in Base housing, well I know of a base cop that kept his issue gun at home, me - no ask, no tell.

I know of only 1 guy in my unit that had a gun on base it was a 12ga and kept in the unit armory, but I was stationed in HI and it is hard enough to buy a gun out there without all the millitary bs added into tryn to keep it. I think they had 1 day a month on the range where you could shoot a privately owned weapon, but only e6 and above could have a gun in their car and you werent about to walk 5mi each way

[JenniferG]

The elected officials of the day had to be dragged kicking and screaming to pony up money to build 3 frigates (USS Constitution being one of them) to combat the Barbary Pirates that were holding our commerce hostage.

There were six Frigates, USS Constitution (Boston) USS President (New York) USS Congress (Portsmouth, New Hampshire) USS United States (Philadelphia) USS Constellation (Baltimore) USS Chesapeake (Norfolk) Authorized by George Washington and built during the John Adams Presidency. The first use of the Frigates was with the French in the Quasi war. 1797 USS Constellations vs French 36 gun frigate L'Insurgente. Winner, USS Constellation under the command of Captain Thomas Truxton ( the actual Father of the US Navy). All six frigates were designed by Philadelphia Free Quaker Joshua Humphries and built with entirely American sourced products.


http://ianwtoll.com/six-frigates

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

Thanks for the reply CL. In regard to your first paragraph, aren't those same sub-types of people also represented in society as a whole? For example, (and I'm not speaking for anyone in this particular thread) we on the group have had discussions about university students being permitted (or not) to carry on campus, in dorms, etc.. IIRC, in general the group thought seemed to be if a given state law allowed a carry permit via whatever process, then the students should be subject only to the same guideline. We've also discussed carry on employers' property. Some feel an individual property owners rights trump those of the employee while on those grounds, while some feel the employee shouldn't have to give up a self defense option due to it.

What makes these scenarios completely different from a mil base?

In regard to your second paragraph; again, if an individual has met whatever state criteria exist for a carry permit............should not that alone be the standard baseline for the ability to carry? Plenty of discussion has gone on regarding mandated training and such; but IMO (and using PA LTCF standards as my reference) any training, certifications, etc. beyond the basic permit requirements are up to the individuals specific needs (as he alone sees fit) and are his responsibility to pursue. I feel (as do others) that training requirements are a very slippery slope, easily abused by an issuing entity to potentially put the "price of admission" beyond the means of the citizen (by combinations of high cost, unusual length of time, location, qualifications of the trainers, course material, etc.).

Lastly, the fact that virtually every "mass" shooting has occurred in a "gun free zone" seems to me to indicate a serious problem with that concept.

I could go on, but think I've made my point and would be interested in your response. Thanks!

Regards, Jim

Jim,

you make a few good points and ask a couple tough questions.

Not all military personnel, IMO, should be allowed or authorized to carry a weapon for personal protection. Why? Well, I served with them, saw them, know them intimately and I would not trust some of them with watching my dirty shorts dry on a cloth line much less give them any type of weapon.

I guess I feel special based on my training, education, and experience as to breaking federal law, DOD Policy, Army Regulation, and Post guidelines on having loaded, privately owned pistols on the base. I make this statement in that, I assume I don't randomly threaten to kill my superiors, maintain proper military bearing and decorum, exercised excellent judgement under direct combat action for years and multiple deployments, graduated at the top of my police academy class, and well, I'm not a threat to anyone or project unstableness, one of the key reasons I say not everyone should be allowed.

Hope this helps, if not, ask some more questions.

CL