Pa. state schools study different options for weapons policy

[qmcorps]

Pa. state schools study different options for weapons policy

Chancellor says systemwide approach may be scrapped
March 7, 2014 11:32 PM


By Bill Schackner / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


The system overseeing Pennsylvania's 14 state-owned universities, having spent nearly a year developing a unified weapons policy, might ultimately scrap the idea and instead leave the decision with individual campuses based on evolving case law.

Frank Brogan, chancellor of the State System of Higher Education, raised that as a possibility in an interview with the Pittsburgh-Post-Gazette.

He said the matter is still under review and may yet yield a systemwide approach. But Mr. Brogan said slowing the deliberation has given the system time for a more comprehensive review of options in a complicated and controversial matter that continues to play out in the nation's courts.

"One of the possibilities at the end of the day may be to not have a systemwide policy," he said Thursday.

Any decision at the university level would be made in consultation with system attorneys, State System spokesman Kenn Marshall said Friday.

Mr. Brogan's comment was part of a wider interview in which he discussed challenges facing the system and efforts to address them.

The State System's board of governors had planned to vote Jan. 23 on a draft weapons standard that had been recommended by a task force, but it postponed the move for additional study and hearings.

As proposed, the policy would bar offensive weapons including firearms from buildings, sporting events and outdoor gatherings, plus all other "sensitive areas" across the 14 universities that enroll a little more than 112,000 students. They include the Western Pennsylvania campuses of California, Clarion, Edinboro, Indiana and Slippery Rock universities.

The measure faced sharp criticism from both sides, including gun rights advocates who felt the policy as written was too restrictive and others including faculty and students who felt the ban did not go far enough.

The system had hoped to have a policy in place by the start of the 2014-15 academic year.

A number of State System universities previously had outright campus bans, even in open spaces, but modified the rules after attorneys for the State System in 2011 advised that complete bans were not legally enforceable.

The lawyers offered their advice after individuals, including at least one student, challenged existing campus rules, officials said.

About half the State System schools, including Edinboro, California and Slippery Rock universities, altered their policies to ones closer to what is now proposed, and their actions went largely unnoticed.

But days after Kutztown University amended its policy last April, word spread and eventually produced inquiries from national media. Amid those inquiries, the State System last spring asked member schools to freeze their policies in place pending a review that stretched into the first half of this year.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/news/edu...#ixzz2vYvuPjDL

[ungawa]

The measure faced sharp criticism from both sides, including gun rights advocates who felt the policy as written was too restrictive and others including faculty and students who felt the ban did not go far enough.

Yeah, right. Gun rights advocates vs. faculty and students.

[90volts]

Since these are state run schools wouldnt it just make it easy to have a policy of 'pa state law' and anyone can carry who is authorized to do so anywhere else? Again...who in their right mind thinks that banning firearms is going to stop a bag guy from following that rule? and who in their right mind thinks that not allowing law abiding citizens to defend themselves is doing anyone any good.

I think any teacher or student should be able to carry if they can legally do so anywhere else in pa. and the best part is... it costs nothing! free security. it's a no-brainer to me. Unfortunately, as has been said before, nothing will change until a good guy carrying prevents a high profile bad shooting event.

[jerkin]

Yeah, right. Gun rights advocates vs. faculty and students.

Don't you see? None of the faculty and students are gun rights advocates and want to be able to protect themselves, it's the evil NRA backed by millions of firearms manufacturers money that is trying to force guns into every facet of our lives.

[ray h]

Don't you see? None of the faculty and students are gun rights advocates and want to be able to protect themselves, it's the evil NRA backed by millions of firearms manufacturers money that is trying to force guns into every facet of our lives.

To be honest, probably a good majority of the faculty are scared to death of guns and they will be the ones with the biggest mouths.

[twency]

As proposed, the policy would bar offensive weapons including firearms from buildings, sporting events and outdoor gatherings, plus all other "sensitive areas" across the 14 universities that enroll a little more than 112,000 students.

I should be fine to carry there then. My firearms are strictly defensive.

[twency]

Yeah, right. Gun rights advocates vs. faculty and students.

Good catch. This is how the "objective" media manipulates the "conversation".

[daschnoz]

{snip}

Unfortunately, as has been said before, nothing will change until a good guy carrying prevents a high profile bad shooting event.

BUT:::
Since that doesn't forward the libtard agenda, you'll never hear about it on the 6:00 news.

[R L Suehr]

[QUOTE=90volts;2670672]Since these are state run schools wouldnt it just make it easy to have a policy of 'pa state law' and anyone can carry who is authorized to do so anywhere else? Again...who in their right mind thinks that banning firearms is going to stop a bag guy from following that rule? and who in their right mind thinks that not allowing law abiding citizens to defend themselves is doing anyone any good.

I think any teacher or student should be able to carry if they can legally do so anywhere else in pa. and the best part is... it costs nothing! free security. it's a no-brainer to me. Unfortunately, as has been said before, nothing will change until a good guy carrying prevents a high profile bad shooting event.[/QUOTE]

It has already happened and it will happen again. You will never hear about it in the National news however.

December 15, 2012


While reports of Tuesday's shooting at the Clackamas Town Center Mall in Oregon, dominated the national media, until Friday's horrific shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, one very important detail has been repeatedly (and intentionally) left out of the MSM's coverage.

The shooter, Jacob Tyler Roberts, was confronted with an armed citizen, at which time he ran away and shot himself. By the time police arrived on the scene, Roberts was already dead.

That armed man was 22-year-old Nick Meli, who was at the mall shopping with a young woman who was babysitting her friend's baby.

On Friday, KGW News Channel 8, the only media outlet to cover this part of the story, posted the following report on their website:

“
"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.
“
The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.
“
"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."
“
The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.
“
"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.
“
Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
“
"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."
“
The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.”

We now know that the assailant's gun had jammed, and when he cleared it, he quickly retreated and shot himself, as Meli continued to keep him in his sights.

Not only has the national media refused to acknowledge this aspect of the deadly event, but law enforcement has as well.

On Tuesday night, Clackamas County Sheriff Craig Roberts held a press conference in which he credited local police officers and deputies with ending the rampage, never mentioning Meli's actions.

Sheriff Roberts said: "I'm really proud of all the different agencies that came together to really step up and put their lives on the line," to "basically hunt down this guy in the mall."

Now, remember, the shooter was already dead when police arrived on the scene.

Killed in the attack were Steven Mathew Forsyth, 45, and Cindy Ann Yuille, 54, A 15-year-old girl, identified as Kristina Shevchenko, was seriously wounded but was expected to survive.

Of course, the Obamamedia is in full support of even harsher gun control laws and it should come as no surprise that they would suppress any story which provides proof that lawfully armed citizens do prevent crimes and save lives.

Here are a few facts about armed Americans:

-In 1982, the town of Kennesaw, Georgia, passed an ordinance which required all heads of household to have at least one gun in the house. The burglary rate immediately dropped an astounding 89 percent. Ten years after the law was passed, the burglary rate was still 72 percent less than it was in 1981.

-Armed citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as the police do every year in this country (1,527 to 606).

-A 1996 University of Chicago study concluded that states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rates by 8.5 percent, rapes by 5 percent, aggravated assaults by 7 percent, and robbery by 3 percent.

-According to the National Safety Council, with guns being used 2.5 million times a year in self defense against criminals, firearms are actually used more than 80 times more often to protect lives, rather than to take lives.

-A 1979 Justice Department study entitled Rape Victimization in American Cities, concluded that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32 percent were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3 percent of the attempted rapes were actually committed.

-Another Justice Department study found that 57 percent of felons agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running the police."

And here are some more.

List of 16 mass shootings stopped by Armed Citizens


The fine folks at the Gun Watch blog have compiled a list of mass shootings over the years that have been stopped or minimized due to intervention from armed citizens. As usual, you will not see this reported anywhere in the mainstream media.

Mass Killings Stopped by Armed Citizens

There are several documented cases where armed citizens have stopped mass attacks by gunmen. Let me list a few: The Pearl, Mississippi school shooting was stopped by the vice principal Joel Myrick with a Colt .45, The Appalachian School shooting was stopped by two students with handguns. Both of the above incidents were stopped by the armed citizens threatening the shooter without firing.

Pearl High School Link

Appalacian Law School Link

Plans to slay everyone in the Muskegon, Michigan, store and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their “gnawing hunger for crack cocaine” fell apart for a band of would-be killers after one of their victims fought back.

Muskegon Shooting Link

The mass church shooting in Colorado Springs was stopped by the shooter being shot by a church member with a CCW permit.

New Life Church Link

The Santa Clara gunshop shooting in 1999 was stopped by an armed citizen after the shooter declared that he was going to kill everyone. Police found a list of intended victims in his car. Only the perpetrator, Richard Gable Stevens was shot.

Santa Clara Gunshop Link

The December, 1991, Aniston, Alabama defense where a CCW holder stopped armed robbers who were herding employees, customers, and his wife into a cooler. He shot both robbers, killing one.

Aniston Shoney’s Shooting Link

July 13, 2009, in Virginia at the Golden Food Market: The gunman tried to shoot several people, was stopped by a CCW carrier.

Golden Food Market Shooting Link

Just recently, in Early Texas, armed citizen Vic Stacy shot and stopped a deranged man who had just murdered two neighbors and was firing at police with a rifle. Stacy made a very long shot with his revolver, three times as far as the perpetrator was from the police officer, who had an AR-15 type rifle.

Early Texas Peach House Shooting Link

That sounds like a very good story… but it never made the national news.

I wonder who made the decision to spike that story.

Of course, when a mass shooting is stopped by an armed citizen, there are not as many victims. This leads to the charge that it would not really have been a “mass shooting”.

I have added this incident at the request of a reader:

Abraham Dickman had a history of anger against employees of the AT&T store in New York Mills, New York. On May 27th, 2010, he walked into the store with a .357 and a list of six employees. He shot the first employee, but was stopped from further attacks when Donald J. Moore, an off duty police officer who was allowed to carry his own handgun when not on duty, drew and fired his .40 caliber, killing Mr. Dickman before he could fire any more shots.

AT&T store Link

Here is another likely candidate.

College Park, GA, May 4, 2009.

Two gunman entered a party and ordered the men separated from the women. Then they started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

When one of the assailants prepared to rape a girl, a student was able to access a handgun and engage the two attackers in a firefight, driving one off and killing the other before the thug could rape his girlfriend.

“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.

College Park Link

Another off duty police officer stopped the Trolley Square shooting with his personal handgun. He stopped the killing and contained the shooter until police reinforcements arrived and ended the situation.

Trolley Square Shooting Link

Winnemucca NV shooting, 25 May, 2008

The shooter, Ernesto Villagomez, entered the Players Bar and Grill and killed two people. He reloaded and was continuing to shoot when a citizen with a concealed carry permit shot him and stopped the killing.

Winnemuca Shooting Link

Parker Middle School Dance Shooting

14 Year old Andrew Jerome Wurst Killed one person and wounded three others when he was confronted by James Strand who subdued Wurst with a shotgun and held him until police arrived.

Parker Middle School Dance Shooting LinK

Destiny Christian Center Shooting, April 24, 2012

Kiarron Parker rammed his car into another in the church parking lot, got out and attempted to kill multiple church members. He was only able to kill one before a member of the congregation, the nephew of the lady killed, and an off duty police officer, drew his handgun and shot Parker, stopping the killing.

Destiny Christian Center Shooting LinK

Tyler Courthouse shooting, 2005 While police officers were involved in this shooting before and after Mark Alan Wilson intervened, no more people were killed after he shot the shooter, who had body armor, and who was able to return fire and kill the CCW holder, Wilson.

Tyler Courthouse Shooting Link

From http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12...-citizens.html

Clackamas (OR) Mall shooting in December 2012, where concealed carrier Nick Meli drew his weapon when he encountered the masked shooter. Meli decided not to immediately fire, fearing he might hit an innocent bystander. Instead, he moved to get into a better position. It is believed that the mall shooter glanced up and saw Meli moving to cover as he brought his weapon back into action. Fearing that he was about to be taken, he instead chose to use his next bullet to commit suicide.

[ungawa]

Dozens of mass shootings have been stopped by carriers.

One that is often overlooked is the Tuscon shooting involving Gabrielle Giffords. A carrier was about to plug the SOB but he had already been tackled.

The Giffords like to say he was tackled because his Glock jammed. Bullshit. He was tackled because it's Arizona. In NYC he would have reloaded several times while the pending victims cowered in fear.

And that's where the Giffords should live, NYC, they don't deserve to breathe Arizona air.