Poll of LEO's take on effective gun control

[Grey Bearded One]

Whenever these conversations come up (pretty often as of late) the LEO crowd comes along and says "most of us are good".

The truly high-lair-e-us thing is that when we commoners say, "Well, most of us are good. Why do you treat us like shit?" The special people say, "We don't know what you are when we first meet you." Guess what . . . we don't know that you cops aren't assholes when we meet you either so why should we give you the benefit of the doubt?

[ray h]

I was harassed and disarmed once. I was harassed and not disarmed once. I was harassed and handcuffed once. I was not harassed or stopped at all even though I know a leo was aware I was carrying a firearm twice that I can be sure of. This is how my I formed my perception of how cops feel about armed citizens.

There can be a hundred survey put out and answered. Many will give answerers on how they would like to react or what they think they feel about a situation, but when something comes up how do they actually react. When they stop someone does a strong sense of self preservation kick in and they disarm a person? Do they overreact in some other way? Based on my dealings with the police while carrying a gun I think the survey is flawed because it doesn't ask what have you done in a situation but how do you feel about certain things.

Very good point.
I will honestly say that I have only had one bad firearms related incident that I ended up having a gun pointed at my head and spent the day in jail. One incident may not sound like much but it is the one and only interaction with the law while I've been armed, so pretty much 100% of the time, where my firearm has been involved, it's been a bad experience. BTW, I consider my arrest to be justified under the law and I'm ok with that. The real issue I have with the incident is having a firearm pointed at my temple for a non violent misdemeanor even though my gun was locked in a glove box and I was being cooporative.

[Deleted]

My perception is that there are a number of police officer's who disarm citizens and go on fishing trips just because they are armed, that number is probably relatively low. The bigger problem is that for every one officer who disarms a citizen, there are always 3 standing around watching or assisting, then there are 7 more who know this is happening and ignore it.
You, as a sworn officer have taken an oath to uphold the law (I'm fine with that and you'll never see me putting you down for enforcing the law), what happens to that oath if you see another officer breaking the law? Does it just go away? Is there some small print that says "unless it's a brother officer"?
Whenever these conversations come up (pretty often as of late) the LEO crowd comes along and says "most of us are good". Fine, but "good" is not standing around watching someone break the law and hurt another person (either physically, mentally or constitutionally).
Please try to make me understand how a "good" cop (or a group of "good" cops) can stand around and watch as someone is violated?
How can you justify that?
You may have come to terms with it and you like the job enough to ignore the bad behavior, that's your decision, but please don't compound it by saying it doesn't happen or saying it doesn't matter that one person has been sacrificed "for the greater good".

None of what you have just posted is COMMON or what the police COMMONLY deal with on a day to day basis. The police are not disarming the good citizenry on a daily basis. This is my point.... your perception of what the police do is flawed and based on what you see in the media and on youtube.

[Grey Bearded One]

None of what you have just posted is COMMON or what the police COMMONLY deal with on a day to day basis.

All we know is what happens to US and for many of us, 100% of our interactions with the police are negative when guns are involved. I haven't been held at gunpoint or handcuffed but I was detained for over an hour while the po-po made sure that my gun was "registered to me" and that my permit to carry hadn't be revoked. At least six cops stood around guarding me in case I turned out to be a bad guy.

[Deleted]

All we know is what happens to US and for many of us, 100% of our interactions with the police are negative when guns are involved. I haven't been held at gunpoint or handcuffed but I was detained for over an hour while the po-po made sure that my gun was "registered to me" and that my permit to carry hadn't be revoked. At least six cops stood around guarding me in case I turned out to be a bad guy.

Exactly! Add on top of that... most other encounters are yucky ticket encounters.

[ray h]

None of what you have just posted is COMMON or what the police COMMONLY deal with on a day to day basis. The police are not disarming the good citizenry on a daily basis. This is my point.... your perception of what the police do is flawed and based on what you see in the media and on youtube.

Admittedly my personal experience is very limited and out of the many thousands of interactions per day as very, very small number are ever disarmed. But I also think very, very few interaction even involve a firearm.
Of the interaction that involve a civilian carrying a firearm, how many end up having their rights violated? How many never make it to the media? How many people just quietly give up their rights or they are scared to say anything?
I don't think either of us know the answer so to say my perception is flawed is a leap when neither of us know the true numbers.
Here's what I see, whenever a police officer interacts with someone who has a firearm there is never just ONE officer involved, you guys swarm the area. This is no longer one officer violating someone's rights, it's now several officers involved, it becomes several officers doing what they shouldn't be doing (or not doing what they should be doing).

[mpan72]

All we know is what happens to US and for many of us, 100% of our interactions with the police are negative when guns are involved. I haven't been held at gunpoint or handcuffed but I was detained for over an hour while the po-po made sure that my gun was "registered to me" and that my permit to carry hadn't be revoked. At least six cops stood around guarding me in case I turned out to be a bad guy.

Exactly how many of us feel. Three out of five times when I am sure a leo knew I was armed turned out poorly. Every encounter when I had contact with the leo turned out bad. I have even had a little prick of a cop start to tell me my holster was inadequate. On one of the occasion a leo decided I was not worthy of being armed I was walking with my young daughter. She had more sense than the cop.

[mpan72]

Admittedly my personal experience is very limited and out of the many thousands of interactions per day as very, very small number are ever disarmed. But I also think very, very few interaction even involve a firearm.
Of the interaction that involve a civilian carrying a firearm, how many end up having their rights violated? How many never make it to the media? How many people just quietly give up their rights or they are scared to say anything?
I don't think either of us know the answer so to say my perception is flawed is a leap when neither of us know the true numbers.
Here's what I see, whenever a police officer interacts with someone who has a firearm there is never just ONE officer involved, you guys swarm the area. This is no longer+32/86 one officer violating someone's rights, it's now several officers involved, it becomes several officers doing what they shouldn't be doing (or not doing what they should be doing).

Perception can not be flawed. It may not be the complete truth but perception is based on what someone knows or has experienced. How you perceive something is true to you as an individual.

My perception is that cops are bullies and overstep their authority as often as they stay within it. Those who do not actually act as bullies or overstep their authority usually just accept the other officers behavior. This makes them complicit in those misdeeds.

[Deleted]

Admittedly my personal experience is very limited and out of the many thousands of interactions per day as very, very small number are ever disarmed. But I also think very, very few interaction even involve a firearm.
Of the interaction that involve a civilian carrying a firearm, how many end up having their rights violated? How many never make it to the media? How many people just quietly give up their rights or they are scared to say anything?
I don't think either of us know the answer so to say my perception is flawed is a leap when neither of us know the true numbers.
Here's what I see, whenever a police officer interacts with someone who has a firearm there is never just ONE officer involved, you guys swarm the area. This is no long one officer violating someone's rights, it's now several officers involved, it becomes several officers doing what they shouldn't be doing (or not doing what they should be doing).

I know the answers for where I work... and they would surprise you. But where I work is not typical in any way...from how and who we hire to how we conduct our business on a daily basis. Problem is not every place is the same.. Part of the problem is YOU (Joe Citizen)

You need to demand more... you need to demand accountability at the local level and get involved in your local government. Demand that a 4 year college degree be a mandatory requirement on your police department. Demand that your police get the training that should go along with the responsibility that they are given.

As for the swarming... it doesn't have to be a gun. Unless you are filing a missing purse report, there will always be a bunch of cops around. Again... this is the other side you don't see because you are a good guy. The gun incident you were involved in was that "circle overlap" I was eluding to.. Be is a DUI.. a drug call... a dickey shaker...a drunk... if it involves a bad guy there will always be a fair number of officers involved.

[ray h]

I know the answers for where I work... and they would surprise you. But where I work is not typical in any way...from how and who we hire to how we conduct our business on a daily basis. Problem is not every place is the same.. Part of the problem is YOU (Joe Citizen)

You need to demand more... you need to demand accountability at the local level and get involved in your local government. Demand that a 4 year college degree be a mandatory requirement on your police department. Demand that your police get the training that should go along with the responsibility that they are given.

As for the swarming... it doesn't have to be a gun. Unless you are filing a missing purse report, there will always be a bunch of cops around. Again... this is the other side you don't see because you are a good guy. The gun incident you were involved in was that "circle overlap" I was eluding to.. Be is a DUI.. a drug call... a dickey shaker...a drunk... if it involves a bad guy there will always be a fair number of officers involved.

I know why police swarm, it's a show of force, a "cold war" philosophy, I get that. I also understand that you have to show a common front, strength in numbers. What I think you are having trouble understanding is when you choose to present a common front, every one of you will have to answer for the actions of the few. That's the problem with "one for all, all for one", it goes both ways. Don't expect to be part of a common front but not be associated with the other officers, it doesn't work that way.

As for "college", cops don't need college, no college classes can teach honor and duty. They need to be held accountable. Making individual officers accountable won't keep the bad ones out but it will get the bad ones out.