Homeland Security Gun Safe Review vs Sturdy Gun Safe vs Vault Pro USA vs Fort Knox.

[JeanClaudeSegal]

Hi everyone ..I recently made a big purchase on a gun safe that I had custom built to my specifications..I did a price comparison vs the competition for what you are getting..this might help a few people who are shopping around for a new gun safe..please check the youtube video below.Tell me what you think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW_zpqyPJ4o

Here is a list of everything that is included..when you custom build it

1/4" steel plate wrapped in 10 gauge steel door

4 Gauge solid steel body measures almost 1/4" of steel

18 1 1/2" steel locking bolts from top to bottom and all sides

2" Double step door system with Anti Pry door tabs

1800 degree fireproofing for 60min

Electronic Lock

Gold 5 spoke door handle with gold pin striping

6 level adjustable shelving with additional gun shelf rack

4 1/2" bolt down holes

Department of Justice Approved

High Gloss 2 Tone black exterior finish with Smooth Grey felt interior finish

1" hardened steel plate infront of locking mechanism

shear off handle

spring loaded relocking system incase someone tries to punch out the lock

Made In USA

[Audrey]

Tell me what you think

What does "Department of Justice Approved" mean?
Is there somewhere I can find where they list the requirements needed to pass their testing?

The lock body footprint of a Chinese SecuRam is standard at 2 3/8 x 3 1/4.
Does the 1" of hardplate cover all of the lock body and bolt, or is it a 1" square embedded in standard strength steel? Most hardplate is 1/4" or so thick and covers the entire lock and bolt area.

Is the safe body UL listed or factory certified for one hour fire?


The shelves look nice and it is pretty.

[JeanClaudeSegal]

What does "Department of Justice Approved" mean?
Is there somewhere I can find where they list the requirements needed to pass their testing?

The lock body footprint of a Chinese SecuRam is standard at 2 3/8 x 3 1/4.
Does the 1" of hardplate cover all of the lock body and bolt, or is it a 1" square embedded in standard strength steel? Most hardplate is 1/4" or so thick and covers the entire lock and bolt area.

Is the safe body UL listed or factory certified for one hour fire?


The shelves look nice and it is pretty.

Thanx for the comment

This safe exceeds UL listing standards but has not gone through the testing..most custom gun safe companies such as sturdy gun safe do not go through this listing because it is the bare minimum of standards..i use to have a UL rating on my chinese made 12 gauge steel Canon safe which could easily be broken into in a matter of minutes..DOJ standards are more strict.. you may want to call homeland security for further info on there certifications. 1800 543 1277..the 1" hard plate covers the lock body area..here is a link of the def of DOJ http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe

[SNAFUG36]

State of California Department of Justice

Perhaps my Google Fu is week, but a search for 'DOJ gun safe list' returns results for California's 'requirements' for gun safes. Does the US DOJ actually have a specification or it is a CA thing?

[Audrey]

Thanx for the comment

This safe exceeds UL listing standards but has not gone through the testing..most custom gun safe companies such as sturdy gun safe do not go through this listing because it is the bare minimum of standards..i use to have a UL rating on my chinese made 12 gauge steel Canon safe which could easily be broken into in a matter of minutes..DOJ standards are more strict.. you may want to call homeland security for further info on there certifications. 1800 543 1277..the 1" hard plate covers the lock body area..here is a link of the def of DOJ http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe

It costs many thousands of dollars to have a product tested and listed by UL and doesn't happen overnight.
There are also many levels to which UL tests to.

You are correct though as this container is equivalent to UL's RSC designation. I have never heard of or seen anything with a lock on it that does not achieve the RSC designation.
Your Chinese Canon locker may have had a UL listed lock and/or body. There are different level designations to which UL tests to. This is up to the manufacturer if they know they can pass it and which level they choose to apply for.

SecuRam locks are of Chinese manufacture and are UL listed.
This might have been the sticker you saw on the side of the Canon safe door.

Homeland Security Safes may have suggested guidelines similar to the contents of your link to California's DOJ, but the universal testing body in the US is Underwriters Laboratories. Other countries have their own testing bodies such as Japan and their JIS standards.

Most gun safes utilize factory certifications to attest to their fire and burglary resistance. It is more economical to do this as opposed to submitting for standardized testing.


I apologize, but I am misunderstanding your statement that the 1" of hardplate covers the entire lock body area.
By your statement you are saying the HP is one inch thick.

There are high security safes fully UL Listed to the TRTL 30X6 standard guidelines that routinely utilize 1/4" thick harplate. These safes are also insurance company mandated as their contents can exceed 1 million in cash.
Insurance companies will not accept factory certifications as they demand standardized testing of bodies and locks to either UL or Vds.

This is a common and rather nasty form of one type of that hardplate:



It measures approximately 1/4" thick.

If your company is using a similar degree of hardplate that is one inch thick and covers the entire lock body area, I am very interested in where they source it and why they are using it on a thin walled container easily breached in many other places.
Hardplate is expensive to produce and use from the manufacturer's standpoint. It can add many hundreds of dollars to the selling price. Gun safes are a tough market to compete in and price point matters a great deal.

You did a great review and video. All the contents were laid out nicely and it looked great. :-) Before deciding to purchase this model, when you removed the back cover of this or a sample of what they build, did you make any notes as to the security measures they were advertising?
Were the welds good, was the external relocker remote or fastened to the lock, were the linkage rods held by way of cotter pins or press on star washers, ...etc.
This unit looks really nice but some companies cut corners where most people never look.

Is the fire insulation glued-in drywall or is it poured?

I like the looks of this but these other things are important considerations when considering the purchase of a gun safe.
Added details such as these would make a killer second review of your safe.

[ungawa]

UL RSC certified is not a huge test, but it is a test. Quite a few gun safe submit to it, it's quite common.

UL tool rated tests are the real deal and most gun makers do not submit because very few guns safes would pass.

Even more so, most gun safes don't have UL fire ratings because they would not pass the test, that simple. So they have other companies rate them that take it easy on them. Usually you find a fire safe or a gun safe, rarely both.

[Audrey]

Yep.
This is what happens with safes that utilize glued in drywall.
The glue goes away, an air gap is present, in falls the drywall from the ceiling and the walls... that's all she wrote.
Not picking on a specific brand, anything with glued in drywall will suffer this fate. Fancy paint on the outside won't help either.

It's cheap and quick to produce this way, and most folks don't even realize that a factory certification isn't anywhere near what it is held up to be.
True fire containers have their insulation poured in as a liquid.
This fills in all the air gaps in the shell and stays in place when the heat comes.
It is more expensive to do it this way but it actually protects things in a fire.

Boxes that have an electric cord outlet or USB connection in the lower rear corner have a "larger than should be there" hole. The plastic surrounding the plugs melts away and in comes the heat. 1/4" hole is fine for alarm wires/Cat5, but anything bigger is taking a chance.
It's cool to have the inside lit up via 110V as it's a pain to see anything in there, but the box was purchased for protection, not convenience.





You can get UL, TL-Rated composities that hold a UL fire rating as well.
Pricey, but it's the real deal.

I'm curious as to what the Homeland Security container has in it.
It looks nice, but so do many others.
I hope the guy takes some photos.

[JeanClaudeSegal]

Yep.
This is what happens with safes that utilize glued in drywall.
The glue goes away, an air gap is present, in falls the drywall from the ceiling and the walls... that's all she wrote.
Not picking on a specific brand, anything with glued in drywall will suffer this fate. Fancy paint on the outside won't help either.

It's cheap and quick to produce this way, and most folks don't even realize that a factory certification isn't anywhere near what it is held up to be.
True fire containers have their insulation poured in as a liquid.
This fills in all the air gaps in the shell and stays in place when the heat comes.
It is more expensive to do it this way but it actually protects things in a fire.

Boxes that have an electric cord outlet or USB connection in the lower rear corner have a "larger than should be there" hole. The plastic surrounding the plugs melts away and in comes the heat. 1/4" hole is fine for alarm wires/Cat5, but anything bigger is taking a chance.
It's cool to have the inside lit up via 110V as it's a pain to see anything in there, but the box was purchased for protection, not convenience.





You can get UL, TL-Rated composities that hold a UL fire rating as well.
Pricey, but it's the real deal.

I'm curious as to what the Homeland Security container has in it.
It looks nice, but so do many others.
I hope the guy takes some photos.

Thank you for the very informative write up on UL Ratings and TL Rated safes..I am aware of the cost factors involved in actually getting a UL approval..I cannot compare my safe against a true TL 30x6 or TR30x6 Vault..Those safes were designed to store high dollar items..You would find those type of safes in jewelery stores or pawn shops ..those safes cost anywhere between 10K-20K in price..my review was based on a comparison between private company and bigbox brand name gun safes that are currently available to the public for purchase under 4K dollars..It is a different level of security all together..My main focus was based on how much you are getting for your money and is it really worth it?My review is also very premature based on only owning the safe for less than a week..This review is actually based on my first impressions and from my visual inspection upon its arrival..i used my digital caliper to measure the amount of steel in the body ..also to make sure that it was a true uni body design and not 5 sides welded together..the hardened steel plate that sits infront of the locking mechanism are 4 1/4" square plates welded together that are placed infront of it..The option to have a hole drilled behind the safe i did not want due to the fact that it would compromise the true fire rating of the safe..Your answer to your question about the fireproofing ..the safe has 4 layers of type x gypsum board in the front and 4 layers compressed on each side..according to there own testing at 1800 degrees for 1hr..there safe was able to keep temps between 275-300 degrees inside the safe.My house is fairly sized .i probably guess it might take up to two hrs to burn down..so for important documents i bought a cheap sentry fire safe to buy myself another hr of fireproofing and installed it inside as you can see in my video..To be honest i didnt really buy this safe so much as for the fire protection because Homeland security has an option that you can purchase there cermaic kwool system vs the type X gypsum board which would give you a much better fire rating..but i wanted more security as for a burgerlar attack vs fire....i figure i would be more prone to someone breaking into my house vs fire..its better to have both but i opted to get more steel..in my entire existence i experience 3 break ins, two of which i was home..i have never experience a fire..cross my fingers and hope i never have to...As i said you can custom build this safe and add more steel and more fireproofing similar to fort knox safes .also you have the option to add biometric or lighted keypads or a bluetooth locking mechanism..i didnt want all that fancy stuff..just a regular digital keypad that would get me in and out really quick if i had to access any of my rifles..but after doing research and pricing everything out..homeland safes came out on top..Sturdy gun safe came in at a very close second and third would have been between fort knox and vault pro usa.

[hotdog]

IMHO, if you want real protection, you have to go with a TL30 or even a TL15.

Of-course these are more costly and quite heavy.

The RSC ("Residential Security Container") rating for most of these safes is fine if youre dealing with the average idiot and simply need a deterrent.

[Audrey]

.My main focus was based on how much you are getting for your money and is it really worth it?My review is also very premature based on only owning the safe for less than a week..This review is actually based on my first impressions and from my visual inspection upon its arrival..the hardened steel plate that sits infront of the locking mechanism are 4 1/4" square plates welded together that are placed infront of it.

I did a little digging and came up with an inside photo for the Homeland vault door.
It shows provisions for the single 1/4" plate.

I have done warranty work for a few gun safe manufacturers and lock manufacturers. Some have 1/4" hardplate that ranges from sad to pretty decent as far as going through it. Some like higher end Liberty will even have ball bearings mixed in with it.
Some manufacturers will place a hardened disc encapsulated within a steel plate in front of a vital area of the chosen lock. Others will simply place case hardened steel in front of the lock body and call it "hardplate."

If you say there are four plates welded together I will take you at your word, but I seriously doubt the resistance is anywhere near the 1/4" of Maxalloy. It's a numbers game. Not picking on Homeland, but any manufaturer using serious plate will beforced to raise their pricing to cover it. Not to mention they will be making a big deal about it in their advertising.
To keep within your parameters of sub 4K pricing they couldn't afford to put the better stuff in there.

The homeowner will never know as almost nobody ever digs around enough to find out. Techs know and the factory knows, but unfortunately it is the customer that gets the shaft.

Hardplate aside, spiking is the easier way to beat an electronic lock.
Pull the numberpad and go down the hole with probes or poke a little hole and probe. It depends on the lock how you attack but it is way easier and faster than drilling.

Sooner or later there will be videos on YouTube on how to do it.
It is to the point now where it is like opening a locked car.

As far as how much you are getting for your money and is it worth it, it depends on what you are putting inside. If there is a single M&P Sport and a Taurus pistol, yeah, okay. The thing to remember is it is an investment. More than guns go into the safe.

TL-15 units are available. There is also a used market.
Lots of stores are closing these days.
Guess where those safes go?