Open carry in PA

**ChamberedRound** · May 26th, 2006, 10:46 AM

I have my PA LTC, but do not own a gun yet; I'm still researching and trying to decide what to get.

In any event, FWIW, I don't know if I would open carry. Everyone should have the right to, but for me, the extra attention is unwanted. Besides, it would seem to me that not displaying your weapon is a tactical advantage, as a potential BG then doesn't know who they're messing with.

**danp** · May 26th, 2006, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by ChamberedRound

In any event, FWIW, I don't know if I would open carry. Everyone should have the right to, but for me, the extra attention is unwanted. Besides, it would seem to me that not displaying your weapon is a tactical advantage, as a potential BG then doesn't know who they're messing with.

You pretty summed up my thoughts on it. The only two advantages I see to open carry are

Possibly deterring crime. If a mugger sees one guy with a gun and one guy without a gun, he's probably not going to try to mug the guy with a gun
Raise awareness about gun ownership.

#1 could be debated and #2 really isn't practical, it's political. I'll be keeping mine concealed, that's all I know.

**phillyd2** · May 26th, 2006, 02:26 PM

Does anybody really have a PA LTC? I have and only heard of CCW Permit, or are you guys just using the same term for both?

I agree that in public such as mall there is no reason open carry. If I saw somebody doing it I would keep clear, but that's me. Nevertheless the experience with Romeo is a outrage and its impressive to see how stupid some LEO's are. After showing a valid CCW permit the discussion was over. What they "think" about who should carry is a non issue. Asking you why you carry is also a non issue because you have the permit. That is all they need to know. Why did they come? Did the Mall call them? If not, by what right to they have escorting you anywhere?

Again the reason I would never open carry. No need for anybody but me to know what I am carrying. Open carry only asks for trouble and makes it easier for somebody to grab your pistol.

**ChamberedRound** · May 26th, 2006, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by phillyd2

Does anybody really have a PA LTC? I have and only heard of CCW Permit, or are you guys just using the same term for both?

I've seen the terms:

CCW - (Carry Concealed Weapon)
LTC - License to Carry
LTCF - License to Carry Firearms

used interchangeably. Now anyone in PA can carry without a license (as long as they carry open, with Philadelphia being the only exception), so it would seem that calling it a CCW license would be more accurate. However, my license, issued by Berks County Sheriff Barry Jozwiak, says "Pennsylvania License To Carry Firearms" (LTCF).

Hope this clarifies things a little bit.

Can anyone else with licenses issued from other counties comment? Are your licenses called LTCF's as well, or is different nomenclature used? I'm curious if the LTCF nomenclature is consistent across the state, as many other aspects of the license (paper vs. plastic, picture or not, etc.) are NOT consistent from county to county.

**Lougotzz** · May 26th, 2006, 06:53 PM

Mine is called a LTCF. I got it when I lived in NY. It still has my NY address on it. I renew in chester county this August. my current LTCF was issued out of Lebanon county all through the mail. I have a picture on it. I never cut it in half to laminate and I never shrunk it before lamination. Mine is the size of 2 3/4 credit cards. It was hard to find a wallet to fit it. I had to get a passport wallet so I can have it fit. The renewal I will get it shrunk to CC size.

**billy870m9** · May 26th, 2006, 08:20 PM

i just could have sworn that someone told me once you get a ccw licence, you kind of "give up" the open carry right....im no leo so i dont know but i would just think that if you get questioned buy a cop, hed give you a harder time open carry with a licence than not.....him thinkin you are showing off or something....i dont know man....i just keep it covered cuz it gives me the upper hand....you guys do what you want

**LittleRedToyota** · May 26th, 2006, 10:10 PM

LTC, LTCF, CCW, etc. are all basically the same thing (at least for the purpose of carrying a concealed handgun). It's just that different states call them different things.

In PA, it is called a LTCF (License to carry firearms). CCW seems to be the most popular term, though, and a lot of people use CCW for all of them no matter what the license in a particular state is called.

(The name of the licesne is defined in state law and, thus, is consistent across the entire state...though it would not surprise me if, in some counties, the sheriff would refer to it as a CCW.)

**ChamberedRound** · May 26th, 2006, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by billy870m9

i just could have sworn that someone told me once you get a ccw licence, you kind of "give up" the open carry right....im no leo so i dont know but i would just think that if you get questioned buy a cop, hed give you a harder time open carry with a licence than not.....him thinkin you are showing off or something....i dont know man....i just keep it covered cuz it gives me the upper hand....you guys do what you want

I agree that it's best to carry concealed, but getting a LTCF does not 'forfeit' one's right to carry open, at least not in PA.

**Archiver** · May 26th, 2006, 11:59 PM

Philly Dave,
Yup... ours in Northampton DO also say LTCF ...as do the PA Statutes. I believe that the intent is to call it LTCF so that you legally CANT be prosecuted if someone see your firearm and call LEO. Its not "un-lawful" if a weapon is observed...
The LEO can NOT then legally hassle/threaten/charge you with "alarming"/nuisance or whatever they want to call it....you're not violating any concealment laws because NONE exist! (Except in cities of First class..Philly)

Romeo,
I'd say maybe when the second cop started hastling you might have said " The sheriff when issued told me ...All the law states is that if private property owner objects you can ask me to leave the premises ...No problem I'll leave if they want me to." That way it tells them you know your rights and kinda infers there may be a consequence if you arent treated legally.
After the incident I may have contacted the NRA (always good to have them on your cell phone or memorise# too), they would have given you a local lawyer reference if necesssary in future
PS Dan mentioned Harrisburg.... As I understand it, ONLY the county of issuance CAN revoke a LTCF.... but then if its Philly and they do whatever they want with darn near impunity dont they? They play legal "games" waiting for court challenges ...sounds like how NJ citizens lost their rights!

**billy870m9** · May 27th, 2006, 08:06 PM

fine im sure you can open carry....but its prolly the worst thing you can do.....it would be nothing but trouble and dangerous.....for example your walking down the city street at night, 2 men walk past you seeing your gun, one comes back to you asking for directions, a dollar whatever and the second hits you from behind and takes your gun, then they either kill you or use your gun for other illegal activity......now if for some reason they get cought with your gun you then have to explain how they 1 knew you had a gun and 2 how they got the gun and you might even be brought on charges, if they didnt kill you when they got the gun......im not questioning if you can open carry i just beleave you shouldnt be able to....its dangerous and not being responcable.....people can do what they want, i carry conceild and i gotta tell you if i saw someone open carry itd make me be on edge...it makes you look like your just looking for trouble.....there is NO REASON to open carry period...

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