Knifes and Deadly Force

[hypersurf1]

Hi All,

New to the form, moved to PA recently from PRNJ. Got a few guns and my LTCF, so far a nice experience coming from an awful gun/self preservation law state.

I am former AF and former military police. I am well versed on Deadly Force but wanted to throw this out there.

I see several threads where people state that Knifes are very vague in the PA statues. My opinion is that they are considered Deadly Force just as they were in the military, meaning that the use of them could make someone dead, fast if used properly.

My daily carry includes a 9mm, a tactical SOG, and mace. I believe that mace is the solution if met with force that does not meet the Deadly Force statues. IE. someone comes up to me and hits me, etc. My tactical knife is there for when someone is looking to take my gun, which would by definition meet the statute for Deadly Force. Granted I only carry concealed and there is a very small chance that might happen. BTW, i carry in a OWB rig, love it.

Just looking to see if there are any holes in my logic as I am new to PA and want to carry responsibly and within the law.

Please feel free to give suggestions, comments, etc.

Thanks and glad to talk to you, I have lurked here for about a month.

Hypersurf1

[sprrdhawk44]

Knife laws are not preempted in Pennsylvania, meaning that a knife that is legal in one county/municipality/city may not be legal in another. In Philthy, for example I believe that it is illegal to carry a knife for any reason other than professional use. Be careful.

As far as them being considered "deadly," they absolutely are. If somebody attacks me with a knife, I'm going to try my very best to put several holes in them. Here in PA, you can use lethal force to protect either yourself or a third party if you are in fear of imminent death or severe bodily harm for either yourself or said third party. Generally speaking, I would be very cautious in using my gun to defend another person sans having all of the facts.

Welcome to the forum!

[hypersurf1]

Thanks sprrdhawk44, very good input, I will be careful when traveling outside my local area and perhaps re think my gun defense plan. I think its important for folks to think about cause a lot of people get shot by their own guns by another person. Perhaps I will put mace first and forefront in my gun defense scenario.

EDIT: Mace and a lot of punching or a backup gun!

[customloaded]

Thanks sprrdhawk44, very good input, I will be careful when traveling outside my local area and perhaps re think my gun defense plan. I think its important for folks to think about cause a lot of people get shot by their own guns by another person. Perhaps I will put mace first and forefront in my gun defense scenario.

EDIT: Mace and a lot of punching or a backup gun!

Welcome to the Forum. Thank you for the Service you provided to our country.

Many forum members expect facts and or evidence to back up statements. For example, I've highlighted the statement that many people are shot with their own guns. Someone on this forum is going to ask you to provide the facts or research to back up the statement. Just giving you fair warning.
Though it does happen, I think most persons shot are shot with their on duty carry gun and are in law enforcement. I'm unaware of any state or federal agency that specifically keeps stats on whether or not a person shot, is shot with their own gun. I believe one can at best "Guess" as to the numbers via news articles, which, are wildly inaccurate at best, generally speaking.

If you carry one gun for protection, then, you basically carry ZERO. Have you ever heard of 1 is none and 2 is 1? The idea is to duplicate survival tools...ie guns. If you carry 1, then carry 2. The primary can become useless depending on the situations...fall back plan #2 is gun #2.
A knife is a wonderful tool for many purposes, including self defense. Not having one is a sin in my book. But I usually have two or three at my disposal.

Again, best wishes to you and welcome to the forum.

CL

[hypersurf1]

Thanks CL. Appreciate your input, also very good.

Yes, I was referring to LE's killed by their own gun. I don't have stats on the number of civilians killed by their own gun. Don't know if anyone does.

I agree, sans a solid statute on knives perhaps I should carry my pocket gun as a backup. I do agree that 2 is way better than zero. Looks like an ankle holster or pocket holster is in my future. I also agree that a knife if the last resort is better than nothing.

[markshere2]

Oh the knife is an essential tool!

But with the proliferation of stupid knife laws, it's smartest to keep it deep in pocket, instead of clipped for fast access.

My primary defense tools are eyes ears and brain, followed by gun and fists.

I never pick a fight, and I'll walk away 'cause I am real secure in my masculinity. But I'll kill if necessary to keep from taking a beating.

[hypersurf1]

Thanks for the input Mark.

I will continue to carry my knife but probably in a very concealed manner. I have never been patted down by a cop. I guess I don't look worthwhile. I also use it too much for all kinds of things that don't involve self defense. It is an invaluable tool! Especially if the SHTF or the mail comes. Don't want to ever be caught without it.

[xXxplosive]

Nice move to Pa. ......there's nothin' for ya in NJ.

[rwb1500]

A knife is an excellent tool for weapon retention. They are also great for opening boxes and making dinner. That being said make sure you know what you're doing with a knife. I'm sure you're great at opening boxes, but what about stopping a threat to your life?

Training in bladecraft is just as if not more important than with a firearm if you plan on ever depending on it to save your life. Find qualified, vetted, instruction. Michael Janich's Martial Blade Concepts is a great program, with seminars and small group hands on instruction. There are also a few other great training resources, just be sure you know what you're getting. Lots of snake oil salesman out there.

Another thing to consider is the actual knife. You'd learn plenty about this with a good instructor, but let me mention a few points;

-Are you carrying a folder? Can you open it reliably with either hand under stress, or even rolling around on the ground with someone on top of you?

-Can you maintain control over your weapon retention weapon? Sounds silly but you really don't want to lose your second line of defense. I prefer a knife with some kind of retention aid, like a finger hole, something like Fred Perrin La Griffe or a Spyderco Swick, which I'm currently carrying.

Swick:




La Griffe



-If you're carrying a folder is the lock strong enough? Will it disengage under a certain load at a certain direction?

-I assume you're right handed and carry a firearm on your right side and the knife on your left so that you can use your right hand to keep the gun in the holster and the left for the knife. Can you manipulate the knife as well with your left hand as you would be able to with your right?

-What is the knife designed for? There are a few extremely well designed and well made knives set up specifically for self defense. There are thousands of knives sold under the "tactical" moniker that have zero thought or consideration put into their production as far as actual self defense goes. Sure any knife will do, but there are most definitely better choices for self defenses.


All this being said nothing can beat proper instruction.