Homeland Security to Purchase 141,000 Rounds of Sniper Ammo

[Sgt.K]

I'm not a fan of big Government or the DHS.

When I was in the Air Force I was lucky enough to be employed as a marksmanship instructor (CATM). As such I was allocated a certain amount of instructor proficiency ammunition on an annual basis broken down as follows.

7.62 2,000 rounds
5.56 1,000 rounds
9mm 1,000 rounds
.45 ACP 1,000 rounds
38 SPL 1,000 rounds
40mm grenades 50 rounds
12 gauge 20 rounds

Total 6,070 rounds

This was on top of ammunition allocated for annual and semi annual qualifications. Not every instructor took full advantage of this but some did. At one point we had 15 instructors assigned to Minot AFB. If every one of them had taken full advantage of their allocated proficiency ammo the total expenditure would have been 94,050 rounds. This was just one AFB.

I guess my point is that that is not an awful lot of ammunition.

A little over 6,000 rounds over (at least) seven platforms, (at least) 2 of which fire burst/auto and chew thru ammo in a bloody hurry. That's not very much, less than 1,000 each - *I've* got that much. Multiplied times 15 people equals ~2/3 of the order listed. Every round on that order is .338 Lapua, intended for carefully placed single shots from (basically) one platform. I couldn't shoot that in my lifetime if it was my job. That's gonna last a long time for a lotta shooters, and I sure don't wanna be on the pointy end of the equation.

[streaker69]

I'm not a fan of big Government or the DHS.

When I was in the Air Force I was lucky enough to be employed as a marksmanship instructor (CATM). As such I was allocated a certain amount of instructor proficiency ammunition on an annual basis broken down as follows.

7.62 2,000 rounds
5.56 1,000 rounds
9mm 1,000 rounds
.45 ACP 1,000 rounds
38 SPL 1,000 rounds
40mm grenades 50 rounds
12 gauge 20 rounds

Total 6,070 rounds

This was on top of ammunition allocated for annual and semi annual qualifications. Not every instructor took full advantage of this but some did. At one point we had 15 instructors assigned to Minot AFB. If every one of them had taken full advantage of their allocated proficiency ammo the total expenditure would have been 94,050 rounds. This was just one AFB.

I guess my point is that that is not an awful lot of ammunition.

That may not be a lot of ammo for a military force that's training. So it kind of begs the question, what is DHS training for?

[DennisH82]

I'm not a fan of big Government or the DHS.

When I was in the Air Force I was lucky enough to be employed as a marksmanship instructor (CATM). As such I was allocated a certain amount of instructor proficiency ammunition on an annual basis broken down as follows.

7.62 2,000 rounds
5.56 1,000 rounds
9mm 1,000 rounds
.45 ACP 1,000 rounds
38 SPL 1,000 rounds
40mm grenades 50 rounds
12 gauge 20 rounds

Total 6,070 rounds

This was on top of ammunition allocated for annual and semi annual qualifications. Not every instructor took full advantage of this but some did. At one point we had 15 instructors assigned to Minot AFB. If every one of them had taken full advantage of their allocated proficiency ammo the total expenditure would have been 94,050 rounds. This was just one AFB.

I guess my point is that that is not an awful lot of ammunition.

It's a lot of ammunition if you are not a miltary unit, these clowns are supposed to be glorified security guards not front line forces. That ammo while normal for combat units is ludicrous for security forces.

[pennlineman]

That may not be a lot of ammo for a military force that's training. So it kind of begs the question, what is DHS training for?

That's the million dollar question.

It's a lot of ammunition if you are not a miltary unit, these clowns are supposed to be glorified security guards not front line forces. That ammo while normal for combat units is ludicrous for security forces.

Like I said, I'm not a fan of the DHS. I have no idea what they're training for. Civil unrest is probably one thing amongst others. It seems as though they don't consider themselves glorified security guards. The amount of ammo depends on how it's spread out. How many dedicated snipers do they intend on training? For what period of time? 1 year, 10 years, who knows? If they're planning on fighting a revolution they better order more than 141,000 rounds of ammunition.

[DennisH82]

That's the million dollar question.



Like I said, I'm not a fan of the DHS. I have no idea what they're training for. Civil unrest is probably one thing amongst others. It seems as though they don't consider themselves glorified security guards. The amount of ammo depends on how it's spread out. How many dedicated snipers do they intend on training? For what period of time? 1 year, 10 years, who knows? If they're planning on fighting a revolution they better order more than 141,000 rounds of ammunition.

They could order all the ammo they like, as soon as they start shooting citizens then they will be hanging from light poles before long. It doesn't matter what THEY consider themselves they are glorified security guards who have no place in this nation.

[pennlineman]

They could order all the ammo they like, as soon as they start shooting citizens then they will be hanging from light poles before long. It doesn't matter what THEY consider themselves they are glorified security guards who have no place in this nation.

I agree......

[Tomcat088]

http://www.infowars.com/homeland-sec...f-sniper-ammo/

aul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
February 11, 2014

The Department of Homeland Security is buying more bullets with a solicitation for over 141,00 rounds of sniper ammunition.

Image: Hornady .308 Winchester Ammo (YouTube).

According to a solicitation posted on FedBizOpps, the federal agency is looking to procure 141,160 rounds of Hornady .308 Winchester 168gr A-MAX TAP ammunition.

Such ammunition is sometimes retailed as “Zombie Max,” a marketing gimmick alluding to its power.

“What makes the .308 ammunition so deadly is the long range capability of the round,” notes James Smith. “The ability is called ballistic coefficient, or the efficiency of a projectile in overcoming air resistance as it travels to its target. According to Speer Reloading Manual Number 13, the .308 165 grain has the highest coefficient of any hunting rifle.”

The latest purchase further illustrates the fallacy of the DHS’ excuse that it is buying bullets in bulk in order to save money.

The federal agency will pay around $1.20 for each round, when a lower grain round could be acquired for around a quarter of the price.

The DHS has faced questions over the last couple of years as to the purpose of its mass ammo purchases which have totaled over 2 billion bullets, with some fearing the federal agency is gearing up for civil unrest.

The majority of the bullets purchased by the DHS were hollow point rounds (one order alone amounted to 450 million of them). Hollow point bullets just happen to be completely unsuitable for training purposes because they cost significantly more money compared to standard firing range bullets, contradicting claims by the DHS that the bullets were merely for training purposes and were bought in bulk to save money.

Large scale DHS bulk buys have contributed to ammo shortages across the country. In April last year, the Government Accountability Office announced that it would be investigating the issue, although no follow up has been forthcoming.

In May last year, the DHS sent out a request for information asking companies if they could provide 2 million bullets within a 30-60 day turnaround period.

In February last year, Law Enforcement Targets Inc., a contractor that had previously done $2 million dollars worth of business with the DHS, was forced to apologize after producing “no more hesitation” shooting targets which depicted pregnant women, children, and elderly gun owners in residential settings as “non-traditional threats.”

I find all of this article to be interesting, and on lots of levels, very comical. They may need that many rounds, and in the big picture, it's not that many rounds when you consider how many it takes for a true sniper to be proficient. It's also funny because how many snipers do they really need, and most of the ammo is spent completely on training.

I think it's really laughable when they have James Smith quoting a really old reloading manual, that is actually talking about some other bullet design and bullet weight. It's not like all bullets that weigh the same are designed the same or have the same BC's. What's really funny about that is that they want to pretend that the 165's have the best BC for the .308 Winchester and that's not EVEN close to true. Even when BC plays a part in all the dope, it's not just the B.C., but also the initial the you can push the bullet with that B.C., and how it plays out over longer distances. Most anyone that shots long range, especially .308 shooters will know that the 168 grain bullet is NOT the bullet you'd want to be shooting as a sniper long range. It's still laughable that they could get some match grade, long range ammo in lighter bullets for a "quarter of the price" (or even half). Match grade ammo costs, that's just how it is, that's the consistency you need for long range. There's so many inconsistencies with the article it's hard not to laugh at it on lots of levels. Either way, if it came down to me getting shot at with a sniper at any distance I'd have a chance at surviving, I'd DANG SURE want them to be shooting some 180 grain bullets that aren't known to expand very well, lol, just saying. I don't like how much ammo the DHS is purchasing, but I won't sweat this one too much.