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    Default Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?

    Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?
    By Dean Weingarten




    Arizona - -(Ammoland.com)- The Rutherford Institute is petitioning the Supreme Court to hear the case of Quinn v. State of Texas, a case where the lower courts have held that the exercise of the second amendment is cause to invalidate the protection of the fourth amendment.

    From the Rutherford Institute:

    WASHINGTON, DC — Warning against encroachments on the Second Amendment right to bear arms, The Rutherford Institute has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to hear the case of a Texas man whose home was subject to a no-knock, SWAT-team style forceful entry and raid based solely on the suspicion that there were legally-owned firearms in his household. Although police had obtained a search warrant for John Quinn’s home based on information that Quinn’s son might possess drugs, the warrant did not authorize police to enter the residence without knocking and announcing their entry. During the raid, Quinn was shot by police because he had reached for his lawfully owned firearm, thinking that his home was being invaded by criminals. In asking the Supreme Court to hear the case of Quinn v. State of Texas, Institute attorneys argue that making lawful gun ownership and possession grounds for police to evade the protections afforded by the Fourth Amendment improperly penalizes and limits the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

    The Supreme Court hears only a small number of cases each year. Much as I would like to see this case settled by the Supreme Court, the odds make it unlikely that the Supreme Court will hear it. This is an important case because of the precedent established. About half of U.S. households have firearms in them. If your home can be violently invaded because police have information to believe that you have a firearm in it, then about half the homes in the United States qualify, once any cause for a warrant has been issued. If a random sampling of homes would show that one of two homes contain a firearm, and if a firearm is sufficient cause to do a violent home invasion as part of the service of a warrant (no knock warrant), then why would a risk adverse police administration risk “officer safety” half the time? The logic would suggest that every warrant service should be a violent home invasion.

    Combine this with registration lists, which anti-rights advocates claim will be used to “protect police officers“. Advocates of the recently abandoned Canadian gun registry claimed that a major use of the registry was to check to see if homes, to be visited by police, held firearms. Further debate shows that this was not the case, but that does not mean that a registry would not be used that way. Registration lists are already being used to confiscate firearms in California.

    If the police have a list showing that there is a gun in the home, and the presence of a gun in the home is sufficient to justify a “no knock warrant”, then being on a gun registration list makes you a potential target of such a raid. Given events of the last year in New York, Maryland, and Colorado, it is easy to believe that you, or a gun you own, could be legislated into a group of either “people banned from having guns” or “guns that people are not allowed to have”.

    This adds a twist to the fact that gun registration is gun confiscation, even if it is in slow motion over time. With the precedent set by this case, gun registration presents a risk of violent home invasion by police. Second amendment defenders have been saying this for some time, as have some of the more candid opponents of second amendment freedoms.

    Many will note that this is an incremental step on the slide that we are on, degrading all the protections in the Bill of Rights.

    Đ2013 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.Link to Gun Watch

    About Dean Weingarten;
    Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of constitutional carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and recently retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

    -----------------
    http://www.ammoland.com/2013/12/does...#axzz2oydtAUy9

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?

    This is an easy fix. Make it unlawful to conduct a "no knock warrant."

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    Default Re: Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyg101 View Post
    If the police have a list showing that there is a gun in the home, and the presence of a gun in the home is sufficient to justify a “no knock warrant”
    Doesn't "justify" buttkuss.... it's simply more harassment of "gun nuts".

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    Default Re: Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?

    Karzai is succeeding in negotiations to end the US military's ability to perform Night Raids in Afghanistan.

    Can we have him as our president?

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    Default Re: Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?

    Officer safety trumps the entire bill of rights.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

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    Default Re: Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?

    In my opinion I think they really need far more restrictive requirements for no-knock warrants. No-knock warrants do still need to exist because there are special circumstances where they can be useful.

    However, I think this power is often abused and lead to these kinds of tragedies. I could agree with abolishing no-knock warrants simply because of the risk and past failures have proven them to cause more harm than good.

    However, I do think they could be restricted to more serious criminal activity and simple drug possession SHOULD NOT be one of them, and unless the suspect in question is the one that owns the firearms such an option shouldn't even be considered. They could of confronted the father being the homeowner and got him on board.

    Incidents like this simply widen the gap between the police and the people that have sworn to protect defeating the purpose behind a police force.

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    Default Re: Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Officer safety trumps the entire bill of rights.
    this is basically what the supreme court would say, i guess its better to have a conservative supreme court than a liberal one but there is a major downfall, these conservative justices believe there is nothing more important than an officers safety, theyll allow random anal cavity searches if it was disguised as officer safety
    Nra, SAF, NJ2AS, GOA member

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    Default Re: Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?

    There is the whole issue of the 8th Amendment that has been totally ignored when pertaining to the 2nd as well.
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws--that's insane!" -- Penn Jillette

    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." -- Ted Nugent

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    Default Re: Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Officer safety trumps the entire bill of rights.
    That's the "selling point" or "justification". I am not convinced that it's based upon reality.

    I wonder if "No Knock" "dynamic entry' searches are really that much safer for officers than a courteous knock on the door and then calm professional searches? Conducted without profanity, with restraint and with dignity?

    Treating Civilians as criminals or combatants has not worked out too well. You harass or kill someone and their family and friends get ideas.

    Not violently radical but politically radical.

    In the US we had the Whiskey Rebellion. The Federalists imposed a tax in gold or silver that few could pay. The people didn't pay the tax. The Federalists sent an Army to one area to make an example.

    A few years later the DemocraticRepublican Party ran Thomas Jefferson as President. One of his first measures was to repeal the whiskey tax.

    The more that these characters hammer us the angrier some of us get. Gun owners tend to have money. If we spend it punishing politicians who send police on us like their attack dogs.....

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    Default Re: Does Exercising the Second Amendment Invalidate the Fourth Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneCC View Post
    I wonder if "No Knock" "dynamic entry' searches are really that much safer for officers than a courteous knock on the door and then calm professional searches? Conducted without profanity, with restraint and with dignity?
    we spend it punishing politicians who send police on us like their attack dogs.....

    Very good point. How's 'bout grabbing them when they hit the street like how the cop took down Richard "the Iceman" Kuklinski?? Cops in Jersey surround Kuklinski in his car while he was driving near his home.

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