Carrying with an expired LTCF after moving out of state?

[RustyB]

Hi. I am moving back to PA after spending the last few years in Maryland. My LTCF expired in November, would the 6-month exception rule allow me to carry when I move back to the Commonwealth in January?

Also, because my license is from Centre County, could I utilize the "renewal" process if I move to Pittsburgh, or would I have to reapply for an entirely new license?

I have been researching the issue and I've encountered some contrasting information, so I figured I would ask you fine folks before I take any further action.

Thanks!

[tl_3237]

Hi. I am moving back to PA after spending the last few years in Maryland. My LTCF expired in November, would the 6-month exception rule allow me to carry when I move back to the Commonwealth in January?

Also, because my license is from Centre County, could I utilize the "renewal" process if I move to Pittsburgh, or would I have to reapply for an entirely new license?

I have been researching the issue and I've encountered some contrasting information, so I figured I would ask you fine folks before I take any further action.

Thanks!

A Pa LTCF is allowed an additional 6 months past expiry in garnering a exemption under:

18 Pa CS 6106(b)

(12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry
a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and
that said license expired within six months prior to the date
of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for
renewal of the license.

Other than a check box on the application there is no difference between the processes for 'initial ' licensing and 'renewal' licensing.

Be advised that a past expiration LTCF is neither recognized outside of Pa nor for the Federal GFSZA (school zone) exception. Also it is no longer a valid LTCf issued under 6109 for purposes of other statutes like carry while hunting exception (34 Pa CS 2525).

------------------

ETA:


Be further advised that, until you become a Pa resident, you CANNOT use the expired LTCF for carry within Pa unless you hold a CCW from you home state (MD). This is because the statutory exception states:

(12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry
a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and
that said license expired within six months prior to the date
of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for
renewal of the license.

As a non-resident without home state CCW you are ineligible for an LTCF under:

18 Pa CS 6109(e) Issuance of license.--

(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:

(ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).

[soberbyker]

Hi. I am moving back to PA after spending the last few years in Maryland. My LTCF expired in November, would the 6-month exception rule allow me to carry when I move back to the Commonwealth in January?

Also, because my license is from Centre County, could I utilize the "renewal" process if I move to Pittsburgh, or would I have to reapply for an entirely new license?

I have been researching the issue and I've encountered some contrasting information, so I figured I would ask you fine folks before I take any further action.

Thanks!

Once you become a PA resident you have to apply in your county of residence, for Pittsburgh that would be Allegheny County.


.

[RustyB]

Be advised that a past expiration LTCF is neither recognized outside of Pa nor for the Federal GFSZA (school zone) exception. Also it is no longer a valid LTCf issued under 6109 for purposes of other statutes like carry while hunting exception (34 Pa CS 2525).

So, besides those exceptions, I could still carry as normal? Is the 6-month expiry exemption merely an affirmative defense for the possible occurrence in which I am arrested for carrying with an expired permit?

I still trying to wrap my head around whether or not carrying while waiting for my renewal is likely to get me in trouble, and the exemption is simply a defense in which to use if arrested.

Once you become a PA resident you have to apply in your county of residence, for Pittsburgh that would be Allegheny County.

So carrying with a LTCF from another county won't be a problem while i'm waiting for my renewal even if it is expired?

Thank you both very much for the responses. I am learning a lot!

[ungawa]

The county doesn't matter. You will apply in the county you live in when you decide to.

Yes you are covered under your expired permit. What do you think a cop is going to do when you give it to him? I think that's a roll of the dice. I think you might be arrested and forced to demonstrate you are still eligible for a LTCF. I don't know how that goes, but I would be a little nervous and keep a low profile.

Your permit is expired, apply for a new one when you move back. That's what normal people do.

I am not a lawyer.

[Curmudgeon]

So, besides those exceptions, I could still carry as normal? Is the 6-month expiry exemption merely an affirmative defense for the possible occurrence in which I am arrested for carrying with an expired permit?

I still trying to wrap my head around whether or not carrying while waiting for my renewal is likely to get me in trouble, and the exemption is simply a defense in which to use if arrested.



So carrying with a LTCF from another county won't be a problem while i'm waiting for my renewal even if it is expired?

Thank you both very much for the responses. I am learning a lot!

First, as a former resident of Baltimore County MD, welcome to PA and PAFOA.

Second, no one can tell you that you can carry on an expired (within 6 mos) LTCF and there will be no problems. People in PA have been horribly mistreated for doing nothing wrong, and their license was NOT expired. You need to understand that anything can happen, and carrying with an expired LTCF just magnifies that possibility. I wouldn't count too heavily on every cop in and around Allegheny County to be familiar with this obscure part of the Uniform Firearms Act.

I'm guessing you can't walk-in and walk-out with your renewed LTCF, and you may have to wait a bit, but you are going to have to understand that you are taking a risk carrying in the meantime. Although you should be OK in the end it could end up costing you to untangle yourself from the judicial system.

There are countless examples across the US of folks who were "yanked around by the short and curlies" for completely legal behavior with firearms. I understand your desire to get back to carrying after living in MD, and I don't blame you. I would probably do the same. But you COULD have a problem, that's all.

[tl_3237]

So, besides those exceptions, I could still carry as normal? Is the 6-month expiry exemption merely an affirmative defense for the possible occurrence in which I am arrested for carrying with an expired permit?

I still trying to wrap my head around whether or not carrying while waiting for my renewal is likely to get me in trouble, and the exemption is simply a defense in which to use if arrested.



So carrying with a LTCF from another county won't be a problem while i'm waiting for my renewal even if it is expired?

Thank you both very much for the responses. I am learning a lot!

Basically two type of statutory clauses involved - those which:
1. require a valid LTCF issued under 6109. Since it has expired you do not qualify for these (ex: carry for self-protection while hunting, delivery of purchased firearm not securely wrapped and unloaded);
2. grant an exemption from licensing for the concealed/vehicular transport prohibition of 18 Pa CS 6106. Since you garner the exemption under 6106(b)(12), you would qualify for these (ex: possession in Phila or during state of emergency as well as the nominal CC and possession in a vehicle).

The 6 month exception, like all exceptions, is an affirmative defense where the burden of proof rests with the defendant. However, in the cases of some exceptions, like this one, the burden is relatively simple as it is documentary in nature and no DA would waste time charging, much less prosecuting, for a carry violation that would be so easily defeated.

As I see it, you have only two considerations in general:

1. even though you are covered for concealed/vehicular carry, the exception might not be well known or experienced in the LEO community. That means that there may a slightly elevated risk of prolonged detainment, as compared to a holder of an unexpired LTCF, while an LEO checks with the statutes or ADA on call;

2. you possession of a loaded firearm with 1000 feet of a K-12 school would violate Federal law(18 USC 922(q)) since you are technically NOT LICENSED. The chances of that statute being charged and prosecuted absent some other criminal activity on your part approaches, but is not, absolute zero.

I would suggest that, upon your move, you make getting a Pa DL and LTCF in your new county of residence at the near top of your priority list.

[Remington788]

Is the OPs LTCF even valid at all given that he is no longer a PA resident?

[RustyB]

I think you might be arrested and forced to demonstrate you are still eligible for a LTCF. I don't know how that goes, but I would be a little nervous and keep a low profile.

There are countless examples across the US of folks who were "yanked around by the short and curlies" for completely legal behavior with firearms. I understand your desire to get back to carrying after living in MD, and I don't blame you. I would probably do the same. But you COULD have a problem, that's all.

1. even though you are covered for concealed/vehicular carry, the exception might not be well known or experienced in the LEO community. That means that there may a slightly elevated risk of prolonged detainment, as compared to a holder of an unexpired LTCF, while an LEO checks with the statutes or ADA on call;

Wow, thanks for the help everybody! I think I now have a good idea of the inherent risks of carrying on exemption and I will definitely make getting it renewed a top priority. And thanks for the welcome, I can't wait to be back in PA!

[tl_3237]

Is the OPs LTCF even valid at all given that he is no longer a PA resident?

Prior to its expiry it was valid even though he moved out-of-state (assuming that it was not overtly revoked by the sheriff). Becoming a non-resident without a license from the new home state is a disqualifier for issue and a trigger for mandatory revocation when it becomes know to the sheriff. There is no affirmative duty on the part of the licensee to make that fact known to the sheriff.