Travel on Bus-CC

[Rich Beauregard]

I want to travel on a greyhound bus, but they have a NO Gun Policy. Does my PA CC trump their policy if I am only traveling in state? Also, will they even search me? I am not taking any checked baggage, just me. I think some of these bus stations are in the wrost parts of the cities. (Most likely place to get mugged etc...) Thank you in advance.

[JenniferG]

If you're riding their bus their policy is the rule. When you buy a ticket for the bus the conditions are plainly stated. No smoking, no firearms, no distracting the driver etc... if you violate those things they can tell you to leave the bus. The bus is privately owned property. You may carry if you ride a Septa bus. The Chief of Septa police says so.

[Rich Beauregard]

Replying to my own post. I see this subject has been discussed before. Wish I had another way to go. I'll look a little more. http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/537...ns-policy.html

[knight0334]

A LTCF never trumps any private property rights.

You would be guilty of trespassing because you would have neither license or privilege to be on the vehicle with a firearm. And the matter that if you conceal your weapon to make it past security or common observation you would have gained entry by subterfuge - by deception. ....which is quite capable of making a gray-area into an illegal one.

[Rich Beauregard]

[QUOTE=knight0334;2579690]A LTCF never trumps any private property rights.

You would be guilty of trespassing because you would have neither license or privilege to be on the vehicle with a firearm. And the matter that if you conceal your weapon to make it past security or common observation you would have gained entry by subterfuge - by deception. ....which is quite capable of making a gray-area into an illegal one.[/

I have a Conceal Carry(LTCF) for PA. Just because someone says they don't want you to have a gun, does not make it law. Then all the gun right nuts would just say no guns and we'd all be illegal. As far as passing security, I never said anything about that.

[Bill67]

If an agent of the bus company, or a sign that says no guns, tells you no guns, you can be indeed doing an illegal act. Just because someone says so can hold up.

[knight0334]

I have a Conceal Carry(LTCF) for PA. Just because someone says they don't want you to have a gun, does not make it law. Then all the gun right nuts would just say no guns and we'd all be illegal. As far as passing security, I never said anything about that.

The right to own a firearm, even your right to life itself, is based upon property rights. If what you say is true then I could come to your house and start preaching some religion that is offensive to you - you know, since I have a right to religion..

Your right to property does not supersede the rights of other persons while on THEIR property. The only rights that cannot be denied by another property owner while on their property is life and sexual compulsion.

Here is how property rights work... Whenever you are on another person's property you are trespassing. Yes, you are de facto trespassing, it is backed up by thousands of years of common law. It becomes criminal trespassing when you have neither license or privilege to be on said property. License is a formal agreement whether spoken or written, and the terms of the agreement apply to the encroachment. Privilege is an implied consent, not bound by a formal agreement, but rather general terms of use.

Entering a store, using transportation of a company, entering another business, etc are of the privilege type arrangements. Your entrance to, use of, or staying within are bound be the terms set forth by the property owner, his representatives, or even his licensees.

[Deleted]

A LTCF never trumps any private property rights.

You would be guilty of trespassing because you would have neither license or privilege to be on the vehicle with a firearm. And the matter that if you conceal your weapon to make it past security or common observation you would have gained entry by subterfuge - by deception. ....which is quite capable of making a gray-area into an illegal one.

I have a Conceal Carry(LTCF) for PA. Just because someone says they don't want you to have a gun, does not make it law. Then all the gun right nuts would just say no guns and we'd all be illegal. As far as passing security, I never said anything about that.

Because someone says they don't want you to have a gun could find you guilty of defiant trespassing and result in the loss of your LTCF.


(b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in
any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or
reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed
to exclude intruders;
(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law or
reasonably likely to come to the person's attention at
each entrance of school grounds that visitors are
prohibited without authorization from a designated
school, center or program official; or
(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave
school grounds as communicated by a school, center or
program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement
officer.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense
under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third
degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally
communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other
authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v)
constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it
is a summary offense.

[knight0334]

I have a Conceal Carry(LTCF) for PA. Just because someone says they don't want you to have a gun, does not make it law. Then all the gun right nuts would just say no guns and we'd all be illegal. As far as passing security, I never said anything about that.

Yes, it does.. See the bottom of this post.

The right to own a firearm, even your right to life itself, is based upon property rights. If what you say is true then I could come to your house and start preaching some religion that is offensive to you - you know, since I have a right to religion..

Your right to property does not supersede the rights of other persons while on THEIR property. The only rights that cannot be denied by another property owner while on their property is life and sexual compulsion.

Here is how property rights work... Whenever you are on another person's property you are trespassing. Yes, you are de facto trespassing, it is backed up by thousands of years of common law. It becomes criminal trespassing when you have neither license or privilege to be on said property. License is a formal agreement whether spoken or written, and the terms of the agreement apply to the encroachment. Privilege is an implied consent, not bound by a formal agreement, but rather general terms of use.

Entering a store, using transportation of a company, entering another business, etc are of the privilege type arrangements. Your entrance to, use of, or staying within are bound by the terms set forth by the property owner, his representatives, or even his licensees.

18 Pa.C.S. § 3503: Criminal trespass
(a) Buildings and occupied structures.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he:
(i) enters, gains entry by subterfuge or surreptitiously remains in any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof; or
(ii) breaks into any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof.
(2) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) is a felony of the third degree, and an offense under subparagraph (1)(ii) is a felony of the second degree.
(3) As used in this subsection:
"Breaks into." To gain entry by force, breaking, intimidation, unauthorized opening of locks, or through an opening not designed for human access.
(b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to exclude intruders;
(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention at each entrance of school grounds that visitors are prohibited without authorization from a designated school, center or program official; or
(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave school grounds as communicated by a school, center or program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement officer.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v) constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it is a summary offense.
(b.1) Simple trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place for the purpose of:
(i) threatening or terrorizing the owner or occupant of the premises;
(ii) starting or causing to be started any fire upon the premises; or
(iii) defacing or damaging the premises.
(2) An offense under this subsection constitutes a summary offense.
(b.2) Agricultural trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so he:
(i) enters or remains on any agricultural or other open lands when such lands are posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention or are fenced or enclosed in a manner manifestly designed to exclude trespassers or to confine domestic animals; or
(ii) enters or remains on any agricultural or other open lands and defies an order not to enter or to leave that has been personally communicated to him by the owner of the lands or other authorized person.
(2) An offense under this subsection shall be graded as follows:
(i) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree and is punishable by imprisonment for a term of not more than one year and a fine of not less than $250.
(ii) An offense under paragraph (1)(ii) constitutes a misdemeanor of the second degree and is punishable by imprisonment for a term of not more than two years and a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.
(3) For the purposes of this subsection, the phrase "agricultural or other open lands" shall mean any land on which agricultural activity or farming as defined in section 3309 (relating to agricultural vandalism) is conducted or any land populated by forest trees of any size and capable of producing timber or other wood products or any other land in an agricultural security area as defined in the act of June 30, 1981 (P.L. 128, No. 43), [FN1] known as the Agricultural Area Security Law, or any area zoned for agricultural use.
(c) Defenses.--It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) a building or occupied structure involved in an offense under subsection (a) of this section was abandoned;
(2) the premises were at the time open to members of the public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions imposed on access to or remaining in the premises; or
(3) the actor reasonably believed that the owner of the premises, or other person empowered to license access thereto, would have licensed him to enter or remain.
(d) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "school grounds" means any building of or grounds of any elementary or secondary publicly funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education, any elementary or secondary parochial school, any certified day-care center or any licensed preschool program.
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Pa.C.S. 18, II, C, 35: Burglary and Other Criminal Intrusion
18 Pa.C.S. § 3501: Definitions
18 Pa.C.S. § 3502: Burglary
18 Pa.C.S. § 3503: Criminal trespass
18 Pa.C.S. § 3504: Railroad protection, railroad vandalism and interference with transportation facilities

[Remington788]

I have a Conceal Carry(LTCF) for PA. Just because someone says they don't want you to have a gun, does not make it law. Then all the gun right nuts would just say no guns and we'd all be illegal. .

You are new at this aren't you? Welcome to PAFOA.

The antis cant make us illegal, but they can refuse to let us in their businesses.

Let me think of some of the places that have turned their backs on lawfully carrying citizens (and the money we would spend):
- Starbucks
- The National Football League (and every other sports venue I can think of)
- All major movie theatre chains
- Most major shopping malls (including all Simon Malls)
- Buffalo Wild Wings restaurants
- Dick's Sporting Goods (a favorite topic around these parts)
- Countless town park & rec departments try to block us.
There are many more but I am not going to list them all.
Read this forum and you will find them.