Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Is Open Carry THE Right to Bear Arms?

    If we all agree the we have the right to keep and bear arms.
    And that open carry is the only way to carry legally without getting a license in some states.

    Then isn't open carry the only right to bear arms?

    Everything else requires permission from the government.And if they regulate it then it can no longer be a right.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is Open Carry THE Right to Bear Arms?

    Correct me if I an wrong, but Pa. Is a shall issue state. The requirements to recieve a ltcf includes the same info as if you were buying a gun. And the opinion of your references "like you would put someone down who would blackball you" and the oppinion of the sheriff.
    Don't be an ass.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Is Open Carry THE Right to Bear Arms?

    I wouldn't say that it is THE right exclusively, it's just the last remaining tidbit in many places hasn't been infringed on or regulated by the government.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Is Open Carry THE Right to Bear Arms?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephpd View Post
    ...
    Then isn't open carry the only right to bear arms?

    Everything else requires permission from the government.And if they regulate it then it can no longer be a right.
    I've heard that back in the late 1700s, all the "good guys" carried openly and only miscreants carried concealed. And in the mid-1800s, a state supreme court ruled that the state's RKBA provision applied only to OC, not CC. So from an originalist perspective, one could argue that the right to bear arms encompasses only the open carrying of arms.

    However, today, where openly carrying can cause the sheeple to panic and may subject you to official oppression at the hands of the police, it can also be argued that the right to bear arms extends to concealed carrying (even though the gov't currently violates that right by requiring a permit).

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is Open Carry THE Right to Bear Arms?

    Quote Originally Posted by awkx View Post
    ...
    However, today, where openly carrying can cause the sheeple to panic and may subject you to official oppression at the hands of the police,...
    Side note. I've researched a lot of "police calls" related to OC over at OCDO (since we have so few here in PA)
    And in a number of those calls it turned out that the caller was not actually "scared". They were curious if the OC'er was breaking the law or even downright vindictive and seeking negative attention for the OC'er because they disagree with their exercise of their liberty.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is Open Carry THE Right to Bear Arms?

    Back in the Old West Days.....if you carried concealed, you were higly suspicious. Everyone carried openly....why, oh why did it have to change?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Is Open Carry THE Right to Bear Arms?

    As I've always said to anyone who questions my open carry of a sidearm...

    A Honest man has no reason to hide his guns!!! (of course the government of late may make some feel differently)
    MOLON LABE

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Is Open Carry THE Right to Bear Arms?

    Quote Originally Posted by normanvin View Post
    Correct me if I an wrong, but Pa. Is a shall issue state. The requirements to recieve a ltcf includes the same info as if you were buying a gun. And the opinion of your references "like you would put someone down who would blackball you" and the oppinion of the sheriff.
    Isn't the sheriffs opinion the ability to take a 'shall law' and turn it into a 'may issue' law. If he has any discretion be cause of someones race, ethnicity, choice of clothing, or the spelling of their name, defeating the purpose.

    Also that the government is involved, charges a fee or tax, keeps a record that could be used as a 'database' and runs background checks all covered in the word 'infringement'.

    That's why I didn't list the right to keep arms since in another thread here someone had a gun confiscated because it wasn't in the 'database' and he couldn't prove ownership.

    Not sure at what date the 'database' was started, but I have a firearm that was my grandfathers, given to my mom who gave it to me. Their isn't a paper trail and I can't prove that I own it and it could be confiscated.

    At least in DE I can still open carry a loaded gun in my car without a LTCF. It must be in 'plain view' but I don't need have a CCDW I wouldn't have to have a friend with a LTCF carry it for me.

    When ever the government gets involved it always seem to infringe on these rights and then they turn into permissions.

    I'm glad that states like PA and DE still retain some of that right. One, maybe two sates have no infringements on bearing arms. Ever since the government got involved in ownership and records the right to keep has been infringed.

    But with my grandfathers gun and openly carrying I can exercise both rights.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is Open Carry THE Right to Bear Arms?

    Quote Originally Posted by SFMarine View Post
    Back in the Old West Days.....if you carried concealed, you were higly suspicious. Everyone carried openly....why, oh why did it have to change?
    Back in the Old West Days, a LOT of town sheriffs denied anyone , except himself and his deputies, from carrying. This is one reason for the gunfight at the OK Corral between the Earps and the Canltons (i.e. History Channel).

    Maybe the good old days weren't that good.
    C.R.

    (The Invisible Poster)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Is Open Carry THE Right to Bear Arms?

    I don't like comparisons to the Gunfight at the OK Corral.

    At the time, I believe they were in a territory trying to get statehood. They were paving the way for circuit courts. That's right, the judge, like some doctors and preachers in those days, would travel a circuit periodically to reach many towns on occasions to clear cells by holding court and sentences etc.

    Anyway, transforming from territory to statehood required showing control (via law and order per se). Then they had a shot at statehood.

    This is my layman's understanding in any event.

    In modern times, with today's technology, it is quite unlikely that very much crime will go unsolved. This will decrease as time marches on. Technology will be the ultimate bane of criminals. Thus, today we should have even more leeway as far as being able to carry.

    And despite technology and conviction rates, people will still attempt crimes. So a need to defend oneself will never go away.

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