NHRPC 2 Gun Series

[woodsk]

I did write this with an AR bias (my knowledge base), but did not intend to exclude the cosmoline drenched peoples gun of oppression.

and will gladly be take an education on AK comps. I think that from what I have seen the standard AK74 muzzle device has a "skirt" on it that goes over the barrel and the threads start some where inside that "skirt". So that would not be any advantage.

most if not all AR devices I have seen are meant to but up agianst the edge of where the threads are cut into the barrel (washer or space ect....)

So we measure from where the threads are cut does that even the playing field? anything behind the threads is not doing anything relative to muzzle control. but don't go thinking that the diameter rule is off the table behind the threads. I don't what some one showing up with an AK comp that has a 3 inch tungsten ring behind the threads......lol

Besides it will only matter if someone can keep one of these guns of the enemy running for the full series

[woodsk]

Couple of questions

Does mil-surp 5.45 count as "steel core"?

Do you have to be in the same division every match?

if it has a bi-metal bullet then yes. it depends on what MFG on weather or not the bullet is bi-metal. We have to protect the club steel and anything but lead and copper are a problem. (if I am missing the mark here I am open to education on the peoples ammunition of liberation) Steel case does not mean steel core.

No you do not have to be in the same division, but points don't travel between divisions.

[raxar]

if it has a bi-metal bullet then yes. it depends on what MFG on weather or not the bullet is bi-metal. We have to protect the club steel and anything but lead and copper are a problem. (if I am missing the mark here I am open to education on the peoples ammunition of liberation) Steel case does not mean steel core.

No you do not have to be in the same division, but points don't travel between divisions.

mil-surp 5.45 has a hollow cavity in the bullet with a steel plug at the back, generally it has horrible penetration on hard stuff.

Though from what you're saying I'm taking it that steel jacketed/lead core ammo isn't kosher?

[woodsk]

mil-surp 5.45 has a hollow cavity in the bullet with a steel plug at the back, generally it has horrible penetration on hard stuff.

Though from what you're saying I'm taking it that steel jacketed/lead core ammo isn't kosher?

Steel core is out. but let me verify the bi-metal (like Wolf) issue. May take me a day or two

thanks,
Kerry

[woodsk]

Steel core is out. but let me verify the bi-metal (like Wolf) issue. May take me a day or two

thanks,
Kerry

So it did not take me as long as I thought:

I just got off of the phone with MGM (the manufacture of our targets) and they are adamant that bi-metal not be used.

Sorry if this is an issues however we have to protect the club property as well as competitors.

Wolf and Red Army are both bringing traditional copper/lead offering in 5.45 to market. those will work great for these events.

[fargo007]

Thanks,

Yeah, it really doesn't matter to me how it's played out rule wise but measuring from the thread shoulder won't work because they aren't equal in that respect, and we all know that the bennie cooly is freakin loud enough as is without an extra inch. The "standard military issue/foreign design" is the only way around it I think.

BTW, the Russian surplus 7n6 is fine on the steel. We have been using it on the club steel for the entire four years I ran the matches with no issue. If you see this stuff I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Now, the old copper colored chinese stuff, and ESPECIALLY the M855 green tip is an absolute no-go. We've lost targets to that.

The steel inside the wolf com block projo's is a soft steel. That coupled with the dramatically reduced velocity of that ammo really does ameliorate it.

--Fargo007

[woodsk]

Thanks,

Yeah, it really doesn't matter to me how it's played out rule wise but measuring from the thread shoulder won't work because they aren't equal in that respect, and we all know that the bennie cooly is freakin loud enough as is without an extra inch. The "standard military issue/foreign design" is the only way around it I think.

BTW, the Russian surplus 7n6 is fine on the steel. We have been using it on the club steel for the entire four years I ran the matches with no issue. If you see this stuff I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Now, the old copper colored chinese stuff, and ESPECIALLY the M855 green tip is an absolute no-go. We've lost targets to that.

The steel inside the wolf com block projo's is a soft steel. That coupled with the dramatically reduced velocity of that ammo really does ameliorate it.

--Fargo007

I'm sure we can work something out. it's really the in front of the muzzle part that really matters.

thanks for the feedback on the Bi-metal stuff.

Are going to be at the next meeting? If so we should talk more then.

[625]

So it did not take me as long as I thought:

I just got off of the phone with MGM (the manufacture of our targets) and they are adamant that bi-metal not be used.

Sorry if this is an issues however we have to protect the club property as well as competitors.

Wolf and Red Army are both bringing traditional copper/lead offering in 5.45 to market. those will work great for these events.

Bi-metal core, or bi-metal jacket? Most of the cheaper X39 and .223 ammo has steel case, lead core, and bi-metal jacket. Most or the stuff from Wolf, Brown/Silver Bear, Colt, Tula, and others seem to have lead cores and bi-metal jackets.

[fargo007]

I'm sure we can work something out. it's really the in front of the muzzle part that really matters.

thanks for the feedback on the Bi-metal stuff.

Are going to be at the next meeting? If so we should talk more then.

I cannot but I am going to email you my contact info. We should be in better touch anyway so I can "pass" that torch rather than just throw it at you. ;-)

--Fargo007

[woodsk]

So I have been doing a lot of research on the Bi-metal issue.

Right now the rule book as written stands.

"No steel core (M855), AP, Tracer ammunition allowed at any time. Use or possession of such ammunition during the match will result in a match disqualification. No Exceptions."

So basically no steel core of any kind. The typical Wolf or Brown Bear with the Bi-metal jacket are not an issue.

However I will add to the RB that any competitor that uses ammunition that penetrates the AR500 steel targets (no the stands) will receive a DQ.

This is how many other rifle match directors have handled the issue and seems reasonable.