Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Long range hand gunning

    I have recently joined an outdoor range and for the first time I have access to 50 and 100 yards. I own a 1963 4" python that I'm gonna take with me for my next trip. My front sight is well worn from holster wear and gets lost easily so I decided to paint it with white nail polish and then a coat of orange, if that doesn't work then ill get a replacement.

    My question is what kind of groups are you guys achieving? I was able to hit a 4" steel spinner at the 50 yard line with my ruger .22 pistol offhand standing but only about 25-30% of the time, since this is my first time having access to these distances I'm sure many of you are much better at it than myself.

    Will .38 be a substantial difference from .357 magnum? I assume the mag has a flatter trajectory and I'll be using the Keith method of raising the front sight from the rear sight and placing the target on top of the front. Any tips for me? Thanks!
    Go head, skin it. Skin that smoke wagon and see what happens.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Waynesboro, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: Long range hand gunning

    I can consistantly (every once in a while I'll drop one) put holes in an 8" circle at 50 yards with my Heritage Rough Rider 22LR and I don't spend much time at the range, so that gives you an idea where you're at. You need a bigger target so you can tell where you're putting them.
    As for 38 verses 357. I think you'll find the 38 is easier to shoot, which usually translates to more accurate. At 50 yards you won't see a significant difference in drop between the two, at 100 yards you're going to have to compensate for some drop whether you shoot 38 or 357 so just stick with the 38. You're also going to need a bigger target at 100 yards with a 4" barrel shooting off hand.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
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    Default Re: Long range hand gunning

    If I can see it, I can hit it.. lol


    I don't remember what size of groups I can manage with the beast above, but I can hit pop bottle caps at 50 yards without touching the post about 2/3 to 3/4 of the time. And have bagged a couple woodchuck beyond 100yards with it.


    With the 38 v 357 thing - flatter trajectory only means it will be easier for the shooter to be accurate, less things to figure out.. A rainbow trajectory can still be accurate if the shooter knows how to shoot. However, the higher power of the .357 can work to your disadvantage too. You'll become tired faster, more likely to develop a flinch, and follow up shots will slower.

    If target is your full intention - I'd use .38spl. Something loaded nose heavy like a wadcutter. I used Remington 38spl wadcutters with my former 8" Python if I really wanted to test accuracy. I think my best group was a 4 inch group at 100yards off a sandbag, and about the same about the same at 50yds standing.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Waterford, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Long range hand gunning

    .38 or .357 will work fine out to 100 but the .38 will drop more. Easy to deal with though.
    300 is a whole different game, though! The .357 isn't too hard to hit with, once you find your hold for the load. The .38 is tough at 300, the drop is in dozens of feet but hits can be made...even with a 2".

    It's a looong way looking down a pistol barrel.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Ambridge, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    Default Re: Long range hand gunning

    Never tried grouping mine but I can consistently (8 out of 10) hit bowling pins at 100yrds with my Dan Wesson using 357 or 38+p hand loads. Shooting 125 Winchester JSP over a bunch of 2400 for the 357 rounds. It can be done with practice pretty easily.

    Again never grouping it but I can run mag after mag from my FN 5.7x28 pistol and hit a steel ram at 200 with factory FN ammo.

    Both situations are bagged off a bench.
    www.Steelvalleycasting.com is your new home for coated bullets and custom ammo.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Clearfield, Pennsylvania
    (Clearfield County)
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    Default Re: Long range hand gunning

    I have 2 contenders and a tassel of barrels from my old silhouette days. My .30 Herrett, 7 TCU, and .22 hornet are all very accurate. However, don't sell these new revolvers short. Here is a 100 yard 5-shot group under 2" from my .460. Some of the new handguns really do well. YMMV


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Long range hand gunning

    The only things different at the distances you're talking about are whether or not you can see the exact point you are aiming at and if your gun/ammo combo is 'distance certified'. If you look at the link here from Wilson Combat: http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-C...partments/134/, you'll notice a test barrel that is pointed at the exact same spot, shot after shot. The only deviations that could be present are the actual loads in each cartridge and the case/bullet consistency. When bullets cut the same hole in the target like what is happening in the WC video, you can be pretty sure the loads, case size, and bullet consistencies are the same. These things, along with being able to see the x within the X, will determine how well you consistently hit a small target at 50 to 100 yards. You can have the best ammo and handgun in the world, but if you're guessing where the exact middle of the BE is verses actually being able to see it, then your shots are going to be irregular. If you can see flies humping at 100 yards, but you're ammo is Wolf or UMC, then you may as well throw a rock at the target.

    Long story short? You have to do everything you can to simulate a stationary test barrel with top notch, consistent ammo.
    BCM and Glock...for a bigger pile of 'cold dead hands' brass.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Long range hand gunning

    Something you can do at the pistol range is shoot ten shot groups at, say...10 yards. If you're shooting at a 4" disc at 50 yds, then anything outside of .80" at 10 yds is not going to hit the disc at 50. That doesn't even account for bullet drop, which won't be much with any cartridge at that distance. If your ammo is consistent, then it will 'drop' on the same spot, each time, at 50 yds. If you can shoot a ten shot group at 10 yds that isn't much bigger than the size of the bullet, itself, then you're going to be able to do the same at 50, as long as you can see exactly where you're shooting.
    BCM and Glock...for a bigger pile of 'cold dead hands' brass.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    York Township, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Long range hand gunning

    Does this



    Come with one of these?

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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Long range hand gunning

    What kind of sight picture do you guys use at the longer distances? Do you aim with the sights aligned but over the target or use the Keith method and raise your front sight from the rear?

    I have always wanted to be able to make hits with a handgun at longer distances after reading Elmer Keith's sixguns book and reading john taften articles. At 10yd I can usually hit a staple (on purpose) with my .22 consistently. At 25 I was shooting one hole groups with the 629 in my signature but I sadly parted ways with it recently and I think 100yd would've been no issue for it. A longer sight radius really helps to shoot consistently at the longer ranges and I have to say the 50 yard line made my G17, 27 and 5" barrel ruger 22/45's sights look 10x larger and the target 75% smaller so the sights felt wobbly.

    I think I'll shoot both the python and ruger with a shooting stick and walk the bullet onto target and try to remember the sight picture, maybe even put a small mark for the different yardages, I am using kinda crap ammo though, magtech for .357 and horrible Remington bulk pack for the .22 but I have some better ammo on the way and hopefully the drought ends soon. Once I run through the .357 ill use mostly .38 spec
    Go head, skin it. Skin that smoke wagon and see what happens.

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