Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Albrightsville, Pennsylvania
    (Carbon County)
    Age
    52
    Posts
    199
    Rep Power
    1036054

    Unhappy LTCF one reference only needed people are helping

    The county sheriff will only take references from Carbon county. I do not know anyone from this county. Can someone help me with this thanks. I just bought my home. I am am new.
    Last edited by cardonasharp; November 6th, 2013 at 10:05 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    3,601
    Rep Power
    1031951

    Default Re: LTCF 2 reference needed

    The Sheriff has no say in the matter of state law and cant make up his own extra requirements

    Your references are to not be "family".
    Other than that... They can be from anywhere in the world

    Submit your application and don't take no for an answer

    If you're not comfortable doing that, I'm sure you can find 2 members here to vouch for you
    Last edited by BimmerJon; November 2nd, 2013 at 10:01 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Milford, Pennsylvania
    (Pike County)
    Posts
    733
    Rep Power
    1805167

    Default Re: LTCF 2 reference needed

    My references in Pike Co. were all from NY. No issues at all

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Albrightsville, Pennsylvania
    (Carbon County)
    Age
    52
    Posts
    199
    Rep Power
    1036054

    Default Re: LTCF one reference only needed people are helping

    I have a lot of PM's offering to help me but unfortunately they do not live in Carbon County I just need one more person to give me reference who lives in Carbon County

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Palmerton, Pennsylvania
    (Carbon County)
    Age
    73
    Posts
    29
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: LTCF 2 reference needed

    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerJon View Post
    The Sheriff has no say in the matter of state law and cant make up his own extra requirements

    Your references are to not be "family".
    Other than that... They can be from anywhere in the world

    Submit your application and don't take no for an answer

    If you're not comfortable doing that, I'm sure you can find 2 members here to vouch for you
    Just got off the Carbon County Sheriff's Web page on LTCF, and he wants everyone to see the line that says the two references HAVE to be Carbon County residents.

    I have my form filled out already with references from NJ and TX, and I will take it to the sheriff next week. I looked up the PA law, and there is nothing I can find that either says "any references" or "the local sheriff can make the rules" so this will be interesting. Mostly because I am applying as a new PA resident with a current FL CCW card.

    Will I be shown the door or issued? Let's wait and see... I'd appreciate any legal precedent I could show to the sheriff - any input?
    -= Gary =-

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Harrisburg area, Pennsylvania
    (Dauphin County)
    Posts
    4,683
    Rep Power
    21474852

    Default Re: LTCF 2 reference needed

    Quote Originally Posted by gpbarth View Post
    Just got off the Carbon County Sheriff's Web page on LTCF, and he wants everyone to see the line that says the two references HAVE to be Carbon County residents.

    I have my form filled out already with references from NJ and TX, and I will take it to the sheriff next week. I looked up the PA law, and there is nothing I can find that either says "any references" or "the local sheriff can make the rules" so this will be interesting. Mostly because I am applying as a new PA resident with a current FL CCW card.

    Will I be shown the door or issued? Let's wait and see... I'd appreciate any legal precedent I could show to the sheriff - any input?
    The sheriff has absolutely no legal authority to impose such a restriction.

    The references requirement isn't found explicitly in the statutes, rather it flows from the authority the legislature granted to the PSP to create the application and specify compliance provisions. The sheriff has no authority to add further provisions. 18 Pa.C.S. 6109 states in relevant part
    (c) Form of application and content.--The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police.
    Once an application has been submitted the sheriff is required to approve or deny (for good cause) the application. Failure to limit references to persons living within a particular county doesn't satisfy any of the statutory reasons for denial.

    Don't let the sheriff try to tell you he won't "accept" the application either. There's no "acceptance" step in the statutory application process. You apply (hand over the completed application and $20 fee) and then the sheriff must by law approve or deny for good cause. If you're denied he has to send you a certified letter stating the specific reason.
    Last edited by twency; May 31st, 2014 at 12:34 AM. Reason: clarity
    I am not a lawyer. Nothing I say or write is legal advice.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Hunlock Creek, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
    Age
    75
    Posts
    428
    Rep Power
    6799455

    Default Re: LTCF one reference only needed people are helping

    Firearms
    Pennsylvania law requires the Sheriff of Carbon County to process all applications for a license to carry firearms.

    Licenses are issued to all those who qualify, based on a background investigation done by the Sheriff's Office through the Pennsylvania Instant Check system (PIC). Once an application for license to carry is filed, the Sheriff has 45 days in which to do the investigation and notify the applicant. The license is valid for 5 years. The Sheriff has the ability to revoke the license at anytime for misuse.

    In September of 2010 the office began using a new computerized system that streamlined the process of obtaining a license to carry a firearm. This new system was developed by the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency and is currently in use in all 67 counties in Pennsylvania. APPLICATIONS CANNOT BE PROCESSED BY MAIL, THE APPLICATION MUST BE BROUGHT INTO THE OFFICE BY THE APPLICANT.

    All applicants are required to have a valid Pennsylvania Drivers License or Photo ID.

    THE APPLICATION IS A TWO PAGE DOCUMENT HOWEVER FRONT AND BACK MUST BE PRINTED ON ONE PAGE

    2 REFERENCES THAT RESIDE IN CARBON COUNTY REQUIRED
    (Name, Address & Telephone Number)
    http://www.carboncountysheriff.com/p.../firearms.html

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    3,601
    Rep Power
    1031951

    Default Re: LTCF one reference only needed people are helping


    29. Two references: "not family members"

    The STATE POLICE create the application. The sheriff has no authority to edit, add or delete anything from it. Tell him that and submit your form

    Also inform him that PA is SHALL ISSUE. A person doesn't need to "qualify" for a LTCF, you must be issued one unless they are denied.
    Last edited by BimmerJon; May 30th, 2014 at 09:06 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USN Retired, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
    Posts
    3,580
    Rep Power
    21474851

    Default Re: LTCF one reference only needed people are helping

    It's the same BS story in Monroe.
    TriggerTime LLc 01/02 FFL CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst. BSA Rifle/Shotgun MB Counselor

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
    Posts
    3,446
    Rep Power
    8042866

    Default Re: LTCF one reference only needed people are helping

    Mabye Atty General Kane will address these rogue sheriffs!!

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