Gun Control Activists Have a New Plan that Could Win

[mingomom]

Maybe I am not seeing it but personally I don't notice the mood changing, why after nearly a year since the shooting would people be saying "Oh we need more common sense gun control"? Nothing is really there to drive people to that conclusion except for some minor events. The anti's had the perfect storm: Their man winning the White House and the blood of children to push their agenda yet they failed but now out of the blue we have to worry about them passing something? Even with all the other pressing issues right under their noses? I do agree though that we need to continue bringing people into the fold and educating the public that gun ownership isn't a bad thing.

Maybe because I'm a woman, or because of my job, I hear it more. Mothers, especially, feel as if they want to do something. They may not get up and actively advocate for it, but they cheer on those who do. And when a big election hangs in the balance, they may be the tipping point. Women who already understood gun rights are hanging strong. They're not the ones I worry about.

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

You're correct at the national level LifeInPa, but look at the ground the antis gained at the state level since that "perfect storm". NY, IL, NJ, MD, CT, etc. We in PA are surrounded by states that do not share or value our rights and not only that but the voting power of the majority population center in Phila, etc. is essentially on our front lawn. What I got from Bobs' posts were the current anti methods being used everywhere, but more focused at the state level, where unfortunately they have had major success.

Consider if we lose the governors office to Schwartz or a similar type, Kane then gets completely off any leash she may be on now and the reps and sens from the populated areas make a concerted effort to overturn or restrict what positive gun laws we may have now. Then consider those judicial decisions that can go against us, like could happen with Erie. I feel like we're hanging on from a high ledge with just a few fingers and the wind is kicking up.

We all need to put aside the silly differences that are used to divide us like OC/CC, hunters, tactical shooters, whatever. Everyone with an interest in maintaining ANY aspect of gun rights needs to unite to put up sufficient resistance to those forces against us. Our side needs to be on the offensive; to be proactive, rather than reactive and work to get serious legislation passed to insure our rights against what future administrations may come into office.

Let's consider discussing a "wish list" that we could put together and work to get in front of and gain the support of our reps. As much of a hard liner as I feel I am (I'd gut just about the entire PA UFC), IMO, we need to focus on "realistic" goals like strengthening preemption with major penalties for violations, get rid of the ROS data base while maintaining the ability to have the PSP assist in recovery of stolen firearms, clean up PICs (as is being discussed in detail in another thread) including being able to use a PA LTCF in lue of any check, allow the use of semi-autos for hunting, get rid of the illogical knife laws, etc..

I'm sure if we put our collective heads together and get some legal advise we can have a clean, clear package to present to our friends in the house and senate. These are just some ideas off the top of my head, lets hear some more.

PS: Though I'd personally add constitutional carry to my wish list, I don't know how "realistic" that may be in the bigger picture.

Regards, Jim

The anti's had the perfect storm: Their man winning the White House and the blood of children to push their agenda yet they failed but now out of the blue we have to worry about them passing something?

[Carnes]

I'm starting to think it is time for gun owners to take a tip from Machiavelli.

I get the impression that gun owners here tend to have strong values, integrity and honor being among them. Machiavelli believed that strong values were important and must be maintained... Unless holding those values would result in utter destruction.

Ayn Rand indicated a similar disposition in, "Atlas Shrugged." She supported the concept that the 'looters' were not worthy of our honor and integrity.

Sharpton and his ilk clearly do not bind themselves to the concept of truth. For them the issue is either black or white, and nothing else matters.

On our side, I see pro-gun people get trashed by other pro-gun people because of various different levels of values conflict.

Al Sharpton does not care if the person he is supporting is a druggy, an attention whore, a slime bag, a weirdo or whatever else. He only cares about black or white. And regardless of how you feel about that, it works for him.

Perhaps gun owners should step back and say the anti's aren't worthy if my integrity. Maybe gun owners can suspend their judgment of other gun owners and kick, fight and scream over any issue that could possibly be intrepreted as anti-gun. Machiavelli might think it appropriate.

[BobFromBucks]

Maybe because I'm a woman, or because of my job, I hear it more. Mothers, especially, feel as if they want to do something. They may not get up and actively advocate for it, but they cheer on those who do. And when a big election hangs in the balance, they may be the tipping point. Women who already understood gun rights are hanging strong. They're not the ones I worry about.

Exactly what is happening in the world of moms and grand moms with the women who never thought about guns much at all. One story at a time. Drip, drip, drip.

[BobFromBucks]

Perhaps gun owners should step back and say the anti's aren't worthy if my integrity. Maybe gun owners can suspend their judgment of other gun owners and kick, fight and scream over any issue that could possibly be intrepreted as anti-gun. Machiavelli might think it appropriate.

Trying to change the minds of hard-antis is a waste of time and a tremendous resource and energy drain.

We must focus on the people who never really gave much thought about guns until the assault by the antis started in January. Those are the people who can tip the scale in either direction.

[Shadowline]

I agree with Bob on this one. The problem with the Pro 2A side is that we have sunk into a defensive stance. The fight has turned into a bunch of individuals, doing their own to first defeat the attacks on 2A, then secondarily to support the push back to 2A principles.

The problem is that we can't win by playing defense. All we can do is delay the big wins, and watch our rights erode slowly. I have done my individual part...emailed and called all state reps, talked to people I know, supported the NRA, and voted in all elections. With all that, I've done very little to make a difference.

We really should organize. The 2A fight could be won if we had people pushing the real stories. We don't need talking shirts at NRA headquarters, or tacticool apes trying to sell their elite training courses. We need thousands of regular gun owners supporting an intelligent, non-emotional position. The truth is the stories that are being used to attack 2A would easily be overwhelmed by the stories that can advance 2A. We are just too unorganized to use them. And that is why we are losing our rights.

[LifeInPa]

Maybe because I'm a woman, or because of my job, I hear it more. Mothers, especially, feel as if they want to do something. They may not get up and actively advocate for it, but they cheer on those who do. And when a big election hangs in the balance, they may be the tipping point. Women who already understood gun rights are hanging strong. They're not the ones I worry about.

I can understand that but women have generally always been weary of firearms, in fact it seems like 2/3's of the anti groups are composed of women. The one good trend I see among anti women is the age. Most seem to be into their 50's and older. A lot of younger women are either embracing the sport (Look how many members here either have wife's, girlfriends, daughters, mothers and sisters who love it or are members here who got into shooting on their own) or don't even think of firearms.

It seems like gun control is a project of the baby boomer generation and as they age then become irrelevant in politics so does the threat. We have a long way to go but the trend seems to be that their numbers are thinning and ours are growing.

Greetings,

You're correct at the national level LifeInPa, but look at the ground the antis gained at the state level since that "perfect storm". NY, IL, NJ, MD, CT, etc. We in PA are surrounded by states that do not share or value our rights and not only that but the voting power of the majority population center in Phila, etc. is essentially on our front lawn. What I got from Bobs' posts were the current anti methods being used everywhere, but more focused at the state level, where unfortunately they have had major success.

Consider if we lose the governors office to Schwartz or a similar type, Kane then gets completely off any leash she may be on now and the reps and sens from the populated areas make a concerted effort to overturn or restrict what positive gun laws we may have now. Then consider those judicial decisions that can go against us, like could happen with Erie. I feel like we're hanging on from a high ledge with just a few fingers and the wind is kicking up.

We all need to put aside the silly differences that are used to divide us like OC/CC, hunters, tactical shooters, whatever. Everyone with an interest in maintaining ANY aspect of gun rights needs to unite to put up sufficient resistance to those forces against us. Our side needs to be on the offensive; to be proactive, rather than reactive and work to get serious legislation passed to insure our rights against what future administrations may come into office.

Let's consider discussing a "wish list" that we could put together and work to get in front of and gain the support of our reps. As much of a hard liner as I feel I am (I'd gut just about the entire PA UFC), IMO, we need to focus on "realistic" goals like strengthening preemption with major penalties for violations, get rid of the ROS data base while maintaining the ability to have the PSP assist in recovery of stolen firearms, clean up PICs (as is being discussed in detail in another thread) including being able to use a PA LTCF in lue of any check, allow the use of semi-autos for hunting, get rid of the illogical knife laws, etc..

I'm sure if we put our collective heads together and get some legal advise we can have a clean, clear package to present to our friends in the house and senate. These are just some ideas off the top of my head, lets hear some more.

PS: Though I'd personally add constitutional carry to my wish list, I don't know how "realistic" that may be in the bigger picture.

Regards, Jim

Hello again Jim,

We have always been surrounded by states who have very different believes but we still have great firearm laws regardless. Also we are not totally surrounded, last I checked Ohio and West Virginia which borders us to the West and South West has very firearm friendly laws. You also have to consider that New York State has a very strong firearm tradition which has been under attack by downstate policies and recent attacks have backfired to the point where law enforcement won't enforce the laws. Some people cite we have people pouring into this state who don't have pro-2A believes but I believe that's overblown. My area for awhile saw an influx of people from the city to the point where they built new schools but that influx has sharply dropped off and now we have brand new schools that are costing us a fortune in school tax just gathering dust.

Even with the influx more than a few people that came from the city embraced firearm ownership. I was born and raised in Brooklyn, NY myself and left as I turned 20. I spent most of my life going to public schools that had plenty of Liberal teachers but what effect did that have on me? Now I have a firearm collection that is more vast and varied than native born folks that have lived here for generations. Another thing, Pennsylvania is a state with a heavy population of "Fudd's" and the ones I have met got very nasty with me because most of my weapons are magazine fed, semi-autos. These people have been detrimental to our cause for decades yet we have seen our 2A rights expand in Pennsylvania during that time.

I am not going to lie Jim, we have issues and concerns going forward in protecting and expanding our 2A rights but realize we have held the line quite well for decades now, grew to a size unbelievable back in the dark days of the late 80's to mid-90's and now just delivered our enemies a stunning defeat. How can so many of you ignore these signs and make it like all is lost? Elections have conquences and I know if our AG plus her followers somehow got around to pushing gun control on a state level they would be out of a job come next election, they just don't have enough support in this state for something like that and I feel we have a strong grassroots movement to protect our rights. Do we need to do more, get more people on our side? Absolutely but let's end this fear mongering, this defeatism is toxic and I feel it will bring us defeat. At times we can be divided but when push comes to shove we seem to come together. History proves me right, look at the defeat of the last gun control movement. People who had no vested interest in semi auto, magazine fed weapons boycotted a sportsman exhibition right here in Pennsylvania to the point where they had to cancel the event. Unity among our community right here in Pennsylvania, who would have thought?

[MDJschool]

One of the reasons ignorant people don't do anything about their situation is because they face cognitive dissonance when reading rallying cries.

[C]onsider those judicial decisions that can go against us, like could happen with Erie. [...]
We all need to put aside the silly differences that are used to divide us[.] [...] Everyone with an interest in maintaining ANY aspect of gun rights needs to unite to put up sufficient resistance to those forces against us. Our side needs to be on the offensive[.] [...]
IMO, we need to focus on "realistic" goals[.]

So, the above poster asks us to:
1) Put behind us any thoughts we currently have of supporting or assenting to unconstitutional 'law', which are the silly differences used to divide us,
2) We need to put up sufficient resistance and be on the offensive...
3) unless that resistance and offensive is a suit filed for injunction, like could happen with Erie, in a judicial decision that can go against us,
4) and we need to focus on 'realistic goals' while 'putting up sufficient resistance' 'on the offensive'.

What this poster has said is that we must do 1 and 2, and 3 and 4, but to do 3 and 4, we cannot do 1 and 2. Therefore, his idea will not pick up and carry with anyone. While many readers of his call to proverbial arms will not consciously think very logically while reading it, at the very least, their subconscious will not make sense of the apparently diametrically opposite positions the author espouses.

[GeneCC]

We don't have to convince the antis. We have to discourage them. They are beyond hope unless they experience their own epiphanies.

Undecided people are the ones we need to win over.

We also need to wake up the many gun owners who accept infringements because "they seem reasonable to me".

[johnydavid]

Really? With unlimited funding,unlimited media exposure, unlimited exposure and unlimited support by teaching institutions. Taking the enemy lightly is suicide.

I've seen everything that's good that support being demonized and thought of as bad. Our country has been turned upside down and I take nothing for granite.

I've done petitioning, marches, boycotts, rallies, etc. this stuff is good and effective however we need more involved people. We need to have numbers of us at local school meetings every week. Local township meetings, local everything meetings every week. If we have groups show up and continue to speak the truth, etc that's one way.

Let me know how I can help. We need to start being proactive .

The NRA has more power than you'll ever imagine. They're like the military. They have things you'll never know about.
That's why my contributions go to them. There the reason we still have guns today. Marches aren't going to get you anywhere. Marches are for symbolic gestures like the KKK not for gun rights. You have the believers and non believers and your not going to sway there opinions. You have to lobby and blackmail the government which is what the NRA does.