63 AR15s Go Missing During Shipment

[Harmacy]

Figure there's no better way of posting your first thread than with this headline:

SOURCE: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-....-bound-truck/

Excerpt:

Sixty-three high-powered semi-automatic guns disappeared from a truck two weekends ago, according to an internal law enforcement memo obtained exclusively by CBS News.

A shipment of AR-15 Colt Law Enforcement Carbines left Hartford, Conn., home of Colt Manufacturing, on a truck headed south, but some of the guns on board the truck were missing when the truck was inspected in its final destination of Shreveport, La.

[Gunowner99]

Hmm, maybe now cheap guns to be sold on the black market.

[ShooterInPA1]

Fast & Furious, Part II

[7998]

Where was Eric Holder at the time of the theft? That'd be the first place I would look.

[Gunsnwater]

Check Mexico. Hillary and Eric up to old tricks.

[Solaran_X]

Sixty-three high-powered semi-automatic guns disappeared from a truck two weekends ago, according to an internal law enforcement memo obtained exclusively by CBS News.

People really still consider the .223 Remington or 5.56x45MM NATO to be "high-powered?" Sure...it's high-velocity. But it sure as hell isn't high-powered. Pretty much a purely in-and-out round that, to my knowledge, was actually designed to wound and maim - not kill.

But I guess it sounds better for a sensationalist first sentence in an article.

[EvoRich]

People really still consider the .223 Remington or 5.56x45MM NATO to be "high-powered?" Sure...it's high-velocity. But it sure as hell isn't high-powered. Pretty much a purely in-and-out round that, to my knowledge, was actually designed to wound and maim - not kill.

But I guess it sounds better for a sensationalist first sentence in an article.

That's funny. Any comment I read about the 5.56 from Marines is that the 5.56 is weak and it takes 6 rounds to stop a guy. Yet, I've read more than a few comments on 5.56 from Special Forces guys on M4carbine.net saying that it's plenty powerful and very lethal.

I think the "wound not kill" statement is a myth. Sure it's not a .30-06, but I don't believe the intention of the round was to simply wound opposing soldiers.

Besides, I think anything with a power level over .22LR is considered high power.

[harold63]

People really still consider the .223 Remington or 5.56x45MM NATO to be "high-powered?" Sure...it's high-velocity. But it sure as hell isn't high-powered. Pretty much a purely in-and-out round that, to my knowledge, was actually designed to wound and maim - not kill.

But I guess it sounds better for a sensationalist first sentence in an article.

I don't know...a 3050 fps 69gr BTHP is pretty powerful. Definitely will do more than maim.

My opinion is it's a lower powered high power.

http://www.6mmbr.com/highpowerbasics.html

[Kramer]

Fast & Furious, Part II

I thought that we were up to like III or IV?

[Solaran_X]

That's funny. Any comment I read about the 5.56 from Marines is that the 5.56 is weak and it takes 6 rounds to stop a guy. Yet, I've read more than a few comments on 5.56 from Special Forces guys on M4carbine.net saying that it's plenty powerful and very lethal.

I think the "wound not kill" statement is a myth. Sure it's not a .30-06, but I don't believe the intention of the round was to simply wound opposing soldiers.

Besides, I think anything with a power level over .22LR is considered high power.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the 5.56 was designed to wound/maim over kill, because if you wound/maim someone it effectively takes more than one enemy out of combat as he is dragged away. And it also leaves survivors to take in for interrogation.

And even if this is not the case, there are plenty of documented criticisms about the 5.56 round - the biggest being it's lack of first-shot kill rates compared to other military rounds and the very insignificant wounds it leaves if the round fails to tumble in the body. These issues are especially prevalent in the 14.5" M4 over the 20" M16.

But as with any round, shot placement is extremely important.

I don't know...a 3050 fps 69gr BTHP is pretty powerful. Definitely will do more than maim.

My opinion is it's a lower powered high power.

http://www.6mmbr.com/highpowerbasics.html

The high-velocity is part of the problem. If the bullet fails to tumble inside the body, it becomes nothing more than a quick in-and-out wound that may not even be felt.

When someone mentions "high-power" rounds, I think of rounds such as the 7.62x51MM NATO/.308, .30-06, .338 Lapua, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, .50 BMG, etc., etc. Rounds that will drop a target at ranges where the 5.56 would be lucky to wound with any hit less than a head shot. At the very core of it, a 5.56x45MM NATO/.223 Remington is little more than a .22 LR hopped up on steroids that lifted weights for a bit.

Honestly, my .30-30 lever gun using 170gr rounds generates 2/3rds as much velocity (3100 ft/s for 5.56 and 2227 ft/s for .30-30) and significantly more energy than my M4 with 62gr rounds (1797 J for 5.56 and 2539 J for the .30-30). But my .30-30 isn't considered "high-powered," even though the rounds hit much harder on the target.

To me, calling an AR that is chambered for .223 or 5.56 a "high-powered" rifle is laughable. Now an AR chambered for .300 Blackout, .50 Beowulf, .458 SOCOM, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, etc., etc...that is a different story.

But this is all my opinion. Now if someone can show me a technical paper on what 5.56x45MM is a "high-powered" round, I could be persuaded to change my position. And hopefully the paper doesn't concentrate strictly on velocity and ignore the lack of stopping power of the round (short of a bullet tumble or head shot).