Solving the OC vs. CC problem in PA. Cultural shift.

[Lycanthrope]

I've read the OC vs. CC threads and how the hostilities are bleeding into the forum. I think it's been played out as far as any of us can possibly stand it (unless you enjoy arguing......and we have those people, too).

Now...I mostly CC and I have OC'd on certain terms and I'd like to find greater political or social support for both. I don't OC much simply because it is not well accepted by the general public opinion in my locale and really don't want the extra attention. I may be a post whore, but in reality, I don't like being the center of attention in daily life. At this time I don't feel supported in my community in this particular right.

Now....should I really feel that way? Of course not. I do have the right to do those things, but culturally our society is frightened and ignorant of guns........and most non-gun owners actually think they are well educated. Why? Because they hear about guns all the time. They are exposed to the results this tool can bear through the media. And...schools along with the media have skewed gun ownership....because gun ownership is a closet right. It is simply not visible enough in our modern society nor is it seen as particularly worthwhile to an increasingly larger subset of people.

Until that occurs, the american culture itself will become increasingly restrictive regarding gun ownership. The culture will drive law..both how they are written as well as how they are enforced. We all know of laws that are enforced strictly and those that are loose.......these are driven by the general concenus of the public....what we call "common sense". In other words, the speed limit may be 55,
but it always causes some outrage when someone gets a ticket for 56mph..... Or....how during rush hour, people make rolling stops at stop signs......and then
that's ok...... How some men get longer sentences for crime...or avoid sentencing at all...based upon the locale.....or even the color of their skin....or gender....it is all very culturally dependent.

So.....how do we make the general population comfortable with having guns visible and educating them on how it may be worthwhile? And more importantly.....why?

It's like this.....we need to examine how to effect social change. Look at local political platforms. They tend to revolve around general issues. Issues that effect the majority and that people can relate to. Those always get the most votes....or money in any given campaign. This is driven by the culture at hand....or at least the views of the most visible culture...or the most influential.

It's easy to say you support schools and better education because people feel that it benefits them directly. "That helps my kid". Getting support for prevention programs for juvenile drug offenders very rarely get support.....because "My kid isn't selling drugs......those other kids are 'bad' and _______ is why they are like that." That is where the basic mindset of most voters ends......they never conclude that those kids are providing their kids and the neighbors kids with drugs.......and even if they were....it's the "school's responsibility" to stop it. There is a great drive toward personal responsibility.....but very little toward social responsibility in our society. When you take a hard line view of personal responsibility it is very easy to pin blame.....versus sharing blame......and you never have to do anything.

In a nutshell it is very chic today to have an attitude of "I will take care of myself and you need to take care of yourself"....without any regard to how our respective actions are biting each other in the backside. That is why it is sooooo easy to argue uselessly about OC vs. CC. The OC guys want to make OC more socially acceptable through progressive desensitization.......and that has been proven to work. The CC guys fear overreaction and subsequent legislature that could damage the general social concensus and cause more restrictive legislature......valid point.

Both sides are fighting to protect their egocentric ideas of what should be........and undermining the other side. But in reality, we are all just fighting for the rights we choose to excersize. Of course, throughout the numerous thread on this board......and rampant poor manners.....no one has offered a decent plan for advocating for all gun rights without shooting ourselves in the foot...per se.

So....how do we go about protecting CC and OC rights while increasing awareness and social support.....or even apathy (which in itself wouldn't hurt our causes in this case)......

I ask for plans for change both socially and politically....or even at your household and local level. What are you comfortable with doing or think should be done. Training to make the public see these rights in a better light? Group dsiplays to saturate the and desensitize the fear at any level? Sit back and vote? Just give an idea....with the purpose of supporting BOTH sides.

The only rules of engagement are no more of that CO vs. CC....B.S. Productivity is the key. I never give negative rep. Never have.....but any mention of the "open carry mafia" or "concealed carry nazis" get's some. So do personal attacks.....and velied slurs.

I've been lazy to excersize my OC rights and this is my start at doing something to at least look at it. I plan on protecting this thread's dignity to some degree.

Lycanlet'shearitthrope

[P-11 shooter]

One of the most intelegent things I have heard on the forums in a long time. And this coming from a man I have personally witnessed humping a defenseless picnic table. You may be a perv. and a post whore. But that was a damn good post.

[lildobe]

Bravo - very well put. +2

... And I had a whole pile of thoughts to reply with and they all just slipped away.

Ah, well - if they come back I'll type 'em up.

[ungawa]

I'm not going to read all that. Those days are over

[Pa. Patriot]

Good post, Lycan.

I think it goes without saying what my idea(s) of plans for change are. Unless you signed up just yesterday

1) Education on several levels.
As everyone knows I've offered three small tools for that purpose:

The website: paopencarry.org
the flyer: Pa Gun Rights flyer
the OC memo for law enforcement: MEMO

2) Example:
AKA: Just do it.
I understand folks apprehension to OC'ing, even if they are inclined to want to. From following the subjects I've noticed most folks reluctant to OC or reluctant to advocate or agree with OC are from urban areas. I think that's no small coincidence. While I OC regularly without reservation, I would not be inclined to OC in "city" environment for a number of personal reasons.
So, with the exception of "cities" I think the result of actually practicing OC has shown to be less than earth shattering, in regards to negative backlash. And that the more folks whom partake in it the more "normal" it becomes. Simple notion, but seems accurate so far based on this state's examples thus far as well as others (like VA).
However, if you do participate in OC please remember that you represent all gun owners by your actions and please conduct yourself appropriately.
Most of the problem with the "public at large" view on gun owners is because they relate the ccriminal elements use of firearms with everyone, not just the criminals. Lets help reinforce the difference between "god guys" with guns and "bad guys".

[P-11 shooter]

[MarcS]

In a nutshell it is very chic today to have an attitude of "I will take care of myself and you need to take care of yourself"....without any regard to how our respective actions are biting each other in the backside. That is why it is sooooo easy to argue uselessly about OC vs. CC. The OC guys want to make OC more socially acceptable through progressive desensitization.......and that has been proven to work. The CC guys fear overreaction and subsequent legislature that could damage the general social concensus and cause more restrictive legislature......valid point.

You seem to be missing that, there is an underlying difference in training and mindset that is growing more apparent as the issue is debated. The LEO Open Carry thread illustrates this issue pretty well.

[CHAUKA]

Both sides are fighting to protect their egocentric ideas of what should be........and undermining the other side. But in reality, we are all just fighting for the rights we choose to exercise. Of course, throughout the numerous thread on this board......and rampant poor manners.....no one has offered a decent plan for advocating for all gun rights without shooting ourselves in the foot...per se.

So....how do we go about protecting CC and OC rights while increasing awareness and social support?

A start is making sure All Gun Owners have each others backs vs the Anti-Gunners....United we Stand??

[Shawn.L]

I believe the children are our future.................

seriosly, I believe the family unit is the most basic unit of society. For me, well, you have all seen my son at the group shoots.
?

Thats my small part.

But, people are more effective in larger groups.

My idea: Can we, as a group, sponsor some sort of community oriented youth target shooting competition

[MarcS]

A start is making sure All Gun Owners have each others backs vs the Anti-Gunners....United we Stand??

I'm struggling to remember any instance where anyone on this forum did anything more than question motives or though processes. Clearly, we are all plenty united in our goals, we only differ on the methods.