Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
    Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like, usually
    set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
    size to 577NE, to 585 Nyati with G&A picture of Ross Seyfreid
    shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
    off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over with recoil,
    to our 585HE the strongest yet.

    The 577NE is an offshoot of 24 gauge caliber paper cases, only they went
    eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
    cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
    577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
    then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
    and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
    of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
    diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
    and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
    and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
    was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
    over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.

    Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
    24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
    reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
    stamp the caseheads 24 ga.

    For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
    the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
    reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
    The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
    about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
    We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
    with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.

    Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
    break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
    goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
    Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
    to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
    energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
    gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
    actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
    So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
    .Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.

    Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
    and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

  2. #22
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    Default Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
    Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed.



    Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.




    Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
    here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.

    The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases,
    and McGowen with .585 barrels in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies
    in stock, gunshops with # 31 shellholders.
    And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed

  3. #23
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    Default Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
    PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
    cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
    being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
    like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

    And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
    spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
    3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
    Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
    where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
    steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.



    I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
    Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
    cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
    inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
    Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice
    like me can do.....



    A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
    ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
    to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
    585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed


  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Brinton, Michigan
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    Default Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
    PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
    cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
    being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
    like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

    And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
    spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
    3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
    Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
    where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
    steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.



    I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
    Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
    cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
    inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
    Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice
    like me can do.....



    A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
    ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
    to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
    585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed


  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Brinton, Michigan
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    Default Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
    here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light
    bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
    but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but
    with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay
    in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about
    mach 4 with a top load..



    Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
    It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
    sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980" ..The 5th, 6th,
    7th blanks on bottom are straight 1.375" 585 regular twist blanks.
    One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed


  6. #26
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    Default Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
    It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a
    hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
    hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
    fairly streamlined..



    But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
    can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
    of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
    Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed


  7. #27
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    Location
    Brinton, Michigan
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    Default Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
    and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
    handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
    We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
    here. Another pallet load of cases coming.

    Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
    will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
    target work.



    Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
    piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
    front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
    on the front. Ed


  8. #28
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    Default Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    Here is comparison of our 585HE and Trex case, and while
    we have barrels of cases and more coming and many available
    in stock in AUS, many are finding Trex cases scarce...



    Here is picture of a neat falling block that could work for our
    585HE with little work, the Wickcliff.




    Here is picture of the singlestack mag box we built for Enfields
    fitted to the bottom of BBK action.Very little changing and
    it fits a lot of different actions, as a fixed magazine, with its
    own feed lips,and we load from the top.Ed


  9. #29
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    Default Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a
    singleshot test gun. We used a composite stock we
    adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.
    Enfield in back, you can see it is longer.



    And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is
    just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.

    Here is one reason to like 585 calibers is bullet varieties,
    this picture is only about half the bullets and slugs
    we know of, and most can easily found. Ed


  10. #30
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    Default Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    There is couple 585 videos on Swann Gunsmithing's Facebook site;

    Of our 585HE in first Ruger #1, that was done in Australia.It was set up

    for the poster Tankhunter on the AR big bore forums. That gun killed the

    first AUS buff, killed by a 585HE, that I posted picture of above. You can

    go direct to the page and click on the videos to watch the test firings..

    https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videos


    Here is picture our 585HE in a Montana PH action in a MPI stock, with the

    style of a CZ stock, that a guy is setting up. The stock will be finished brown

    and metal finished with a Gun Kote finish...Ed


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